CM Total Conversion

[Hamstersss]

Guys,

I'm new to CM but I love the game and I could write page after page about the amazing experiences within it. However, I'd rather broach the subject of modifying CM to produce a mod with all-new vehicles and troops as well as a whole pack of missions and operations based on the novel idea of a Confederate States Army and United States Army invading a Nazi Europe.

To whit, there would need to be uniforms for the CSA as well as a delineation of vehicles and the addition of new vehicles. I've always pictured the difference being lower quality armor, artillary, etc in the CSA counteracted by higher quality troops and a focus on infantry-based weapons systems.

The operational aspect that I've fleshed out is simultaneous invasions of Europe with the US Army heading in at Calais and the CSA heading in via Normandy. The situation would be different from the real case due to a drubbing of the Russians resulting in a (relatively) calm Eastern Front.

I'd like to know what people think of this idea and how they think the American generals, weapons and vehicles would be split and varied between the US and CS armies.

[KNIL]

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I've always pictured the difference being lower quality armor, artillary, etc in the CSA counteracted by higher quality troops and a focus on infantry-based weapons systems

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Interesting alternate history idea you bring up but what do you mean by higher quality troops? In relation to US troops or to Fallschirmjaeger or Waffen SS? What might have been true in the Civil War might not be true in later conflicts...

Also, what about interaction between US, CS, and other Allies... It would have been tough/impossible for the US to invade Europe alone, let alone coping with the distances involved from the US mainland.

Also, if the Russians had been defeated in the East perhaps the Germans would have been able to shift the lion's share of equipment and manpower to the western theatre. In that case it might be quite implausible to breach the German defenses.

Interesting idea though...

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Koninklijk Nederlands-Indisch Leger

--Royal Dutch-Indonesian Army--

[gaffertape]

I'm far from an expert, but I understand that the game code is designed in such a way that mods of this nature would be difficult to create. Uniforms (or vehicle colour schemes) could be made, but the other stuff could be hard.

Just a thought, but it seems like the hypothetical situation you're outlining would be better suited for a larger scale (like Panzer General). The CM sized level of combat wouldn't greatly reflect the differences in North / South armies any more than different nations are modelled now. I think the political aspect of what you describe could be the real selling point: Supply issues / Deliniation of attack zones, etc.

GAFF

[Holman]

Just a bit of a (cold water?) niggle:

If the CSA had come out of the Civil War as an independent nation with its own "unique way of life," would it have been anything but a minor agrarian society in the 1940s? Most of the industrial might of the United States was concentrated in the rust belt, both in the 1860s and in the 1940s. The thousands of Shermans and B-17s that tipped the balance in WW2 weren't built in Alabama or the Carolinas.

I'm not bashing the South (well, except for the "unique way of life" part), just questioning the abilities of an independent CSA.

[This message has been edited by Martyr (edited 07-07-2000).]

[Hamstersss]

To respond to a few issues:

1. Germany's strength in a single front war.

This is postulated to make the war even and return to Germany its prized Luftewaffe. I do think it will make the Allies' task more difficult but that makes for a great game.

2. CSA troop differences.

The fact that the Confederacy would be, primarily, an Agrarian nation spread into Mexico, would force a reliance on infantry based weaponry, in my estimation, as it can be produced at a lower cost and suits a well trained army low in armor, air and artillary support.

3. The Scale.

Yes, I think the political aspect of this would be excellent to explore but I'm in love with CM and think it would be best to see it here. As to programming, I haven't explored the issue but have had some experience with mods and am sure that CM won't be too difficult, with the right help.

4. The Agrarian Confederacy

Even during the Civil War, the Confederacy was able to produce the Virginia and nearly the Lousiana and Alabama, all very well built warships. With the dreams of the Confederate leaders to expand ever farther south, they would have had oil reserves from Mexico and Texas and, I feel, would have industrialized somewhat. Also keep in mind many of the tactical and industrial geniuses of the WW2 period were southern (Patton's grandad served in Lee's Army of Northern Virginia and the guy who invented the landing crafts for Normandy was from New Orleans).

5. That Peculiar Institution.

I don't shy away from the slavery aspect. I feel the Confederacy would have freed the slaves, in the same manner as Brazil, during the 1880s. To give this issue it's due, though, I wanted one of the operations to focus on a politically disgraced Patton leading a black CSA army to free the 101st USA Airborne trapped in Bastogne. I think this would be epic and heroic as well as facilitate the addition of black soldiers to CM.

[Soliloquy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks:

Even during the Civil War, the Confederacy was able to produce the Virginia and nearly the Lousiana and Alabama, all very well built warships.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Virginia was constructed from the hull of the Merrimac (built by the US). Alabama was built in England, and the Louisiana was never completed and only deployed as a floating battery. The CSA suffered from mechanical parts shortages throughout the conflict.

Nevertheless, I think such a mod would be an interesting diversion. Have you been reading Turtledove's alternate history novels?

[Hamstersss]

You have a point regarding the ships, though keep in mind the Tredager Iron Works built a Steam Engine (In 1860 I believe) so the South wasn't THAT backwoods. I can't argue with the fact that the state of New York put out more industrial goods in 4 months than the entire South could all year but I do think that it proved that industrousness can match industry.

I think that this mod would be as much fun to create as it would be to play, what with designing uniforms, weaponry and their OOB.

On a side note, what are the possibilities of more than two people playing CM at once? I would think the format would allow an unlimited number of PBEM participants, such that you could have each squad controled by a different player, though such an extreme effect wouldn't be fun for most, but the possibilities of joint actions are intriguing.

[Speedy]

If the situation of a seperate CSA had developed I would expect that during any conflict the USA and CSA would get involved in they would be on opposing sides. USA axis and CSA allies.

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IN VINO VERITAS