Guest Paul Roberts Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 After several weeks of watching this board, I finally scraped together the time to download the demo. I wish I hadn't: it only makes me want to have the full version RIGHT AWAY! Anyway, I have a question. I have seen posted that the time period covered by CM begins on June 7, 1944. That is, there will be no landing craft or "get off the beach" scenarios included in the game. However, I wonder if it might still be possible to include wet sand as a terrain type in the mission editor. This would be the only addition necessary in order for us to cobble together scenarios on Omaha, Omaha, Gold, Sword and Juno: set up one edge of the map as water, and establish the deployment area as a long, thin strip at the water's edge. "Beach terrain" would also be useful for some riversides and swamp-like areas. Just wondering if something like this is possible or even already in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Roberts Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 OK, I just did a search and uncovered a thread arguing that a large Omaha-style frontal assault scenario would be a tactically uninteresting bloodbath. Probably true. Still, it seems that the beach terrain type itself would be a fairly minor addition to make, while it would add some useful flexibility to the mission editor. (Naturally, I'd vote to skip it if it delays the game more than three days!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Sorry Paul, but I vote against it if it delays the game 3 HOURS! Would make a good add on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Hi Paul! Sorry, but "fairly minor" is only a theory. The reality is "excruciatingly major" So much so that there is no possibility of any terrain changes now or even for the last 2 months. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Roberts Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 "Excruciatingly major"??? Can't argue with that! Anxiously awaiting the game, Paul Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aacooper Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Sand would have to have different surface characteristics than open ground, damp ground, or mud. Although, it would only be necessary to model one type of sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Capt_Manieri Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 You could try to use wheat fields or very very very light colored open ground...that's what I'm gonna do to make my beach scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Rough terrain might do well. I think fields offer a LOS obstacle that would not be realistic. Rough might do that too. Regular terrain is really not that noticeable. Los has experimented with a beach landing and his work came out very nice. As in many games, you can rig and play with the editor to make it do things that are not normally built into the game. Example. I wanted Germans, prisoners and wounded. So I put them far enough behind American troops so they would not get shot at and then put them in an exhausted shaken state. Made the attempted breakthrough and rescue a lot of fun. So, yes, Cap, give it a try. Experiment with the editor when you get it. Do different things, unique things. Don't ever give up without trying. Another scenario designer and I are working with the Wittmann massacre of the Brits at Villers Bocage, each doing his own scenario. Now here is a challenge. How can you make a scenario where a lone Tiger has a chance against a dozen half tracks, a platoon or two of infantry and at least ten enemy tanks? Well, fiddling with the editor, it can be done. But that comes with time and patience. So look forward to not only playing the game, but making your own game. All of you have the potential to do it with this fine editor. And this is why we need a Pacific Module of CM (oh, no!..not again...groan). Then we can make beach assaults. Steve, Charles? Listening? (G) ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 I just did a search on terrain and here is a post by Charles listing the types of terrain in CM. The post is five months old and at least one terrain type, brush, has been added. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The terrain types in CM are: Open Foxhole/Crater Scattered Trees Woods Tall Pine Woods Roadblock Barbed Wire Dirt Road Paved Road City Pavement Train Tracks Marsh Grain Rough Rubble Slopes Cliffs Water Ice Bocage Stone Wall Hedge Wood Building (small, 1-level) Wood Building (large, 2-level) Stone Building (small, 1-level) Stone Blockhouse (very large, 2-level) Church (very large, 2-level) Bridges (various types, over water or land) How's that? Charles <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The link to the subject is http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/forum1/HTML/000463.html Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 You guys worrying about no beach terrain, here's a wild thought...use open ground! Works like a charm. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Capt_Manieri Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Last time I was at the beach the sand wasn't green!.........smart ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Capt_Manieri said " Last time I was at the beach the sand wasn't green!.........smart ass."..............Hey Capt. In the words of the great Sgt. Hugga......LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS. Los is great help around these parts and he was just trying to help. I dont know Los and dont usually interfere with peoples post but I think that your last comment was unwarranted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Manieri, Show some manners to your betters and Los is VERY much your better. Los is a beta tester and infinitely more knowledgeable about manners relating to war and scenario design than you ever will be. I respect Los a lot and you should show respect also. Los was saying that the substituting normal grass terrain for sand terrain was possible since the cover and concealment effects of open grass terrain approximate those of sand terrain. It is only your own inexperience with the system and lack of knowledge which leads you to focus on the COLOUR issue which, BTW, is the smallest issue vis a vis accuracy and realism in this discussion. I seriously think you need to give Los an apology and start thinking four or five times before you post any more of your back-biting comments. Almost everyone here knows a hell of a lot more than you about what is being discussed here yet I've seen you talk back to alpha and beta testers who are trying to give you advice about the game and answer back to people who have read ten times more books about war than you and EVEN talk back to others who have been in real wars. You need to learn some respect and realise that you can't just do whatever you want simply because you happen to be 16. It isn't grown up, it doesn't impress anyone here and I know from private emails and chats that a lot of people are sick of the cavalier attitude. Now, I suggest you not take this as an attack but simply take it as someone being very open and blunt with you. For God's sake don't respond the second you read this (as you'll probably be angry) but go away and have a think if anything you have said on this forum over the past weeks since you joined just might be making other people feel this way (as I assure you it is). Then, perhaps, consider making a change eh? ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 I've heard reference in BTS/insider posts to snow, and "deep snow". Cosmetic issues aside, I would think one of these might already have attributes similar to sand. Slowing and tiring of foot soldiers would already be factored in. Snow and sand are also close enough for gubmint work regarding vehicles. Tint and texture the .bmps, and you're there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Yes, and with marsh, brush, rough etc there would be many possibilities. The important thing for a designer would be to find a terrain which acts like the sand he wants. Colouring it is child's play. The real work is finding that terrain or rather those terrain types since sand is not homogenous. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antonio64 Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 i have never posted before but i have preordered combat mission and enjoy reading posts...i also look forward to some of capt manieires posts so i can read about it when everyone jumps all over him...he gets what he deserves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You guys worrying about no beach terrain, here's a wild thought...use open ground! Works like a charm.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm not a beta tester, but setting the ground conditions to the same setting used in Chance Encounter would give you "wet sand" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major LardLad Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 A bit off topic, but terrain related. Isn't anyone else disturbed about yellow wheat fields in early April? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Actually there are a lot more "ground hardness" settings. I think there's dry, damp, mud, a few others and then the different varieties of snow... It won't be difficult to make 4 or 5 different varieties of sand in-game with a little juggling of terrain tile and ground hardness. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Well, here's a curiosity, Fionn...... Can you set multiple ground softness levels on the same map? Quite impressive of the editor if that is indeed the case. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 No, things like "Mud", "Deep snow" etc are map-wide... That's not a bad idea for CM2 though but definitely isn't going into CM. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Oops sorry for starting a minor **** storm. (I took no umbrage from Capt Manieri's commets). The fact of the matter is CM will not be released with beach terrain. But you can still make a pretty decent beach assault scenario given a few "work arounds". We've got one circulating in testing. BTW I was standing on Omaha beach on the beginning of June, last year. There was a lot of green seaweed all over! On a more serious note I don't think modelling the softness of the sand is an issue with a D-Day assault per se. That particular beach at low tide when the allies landed is hard packed, and the shingle is not to far from high tide. Now if we were doing an Iwo Jima scenario it would be a factor, so open ground will do nicely. (My plug for a Pac version---can't wait!) Cheers... Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Isn't anyone else disturbed about yellow wheat fields in early April? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No. And in the first release it would be OK if the Pak crews are smoking Lucky Strikes (maybe they're captured). Spring wheat is green and shorter, so it would be hard to tell the field apart from other vegetation, for one thing. I want to know where the wheat is because it's an LOS obstruction and theoretically a movement hindrance. Coding the gradual change of vegetation for each successive season would be a bit much, nicht wahr? Though we've seen beautiful fall tree foliage in some of the scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 IIRC there are three different terrain sets. Summer, Fall and Winter.. The ground, grass colour, foliage etc look different in each of these "seasons" ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major LardLad Posted January 17, 2000 Share Posted January 17, 2000 I pleased that wheat fields do have different attributes depending on the time of year. My guesses would be: D-Day to August/September: Yellow, good cover, highly flamable if dry. Harvest till Spring: Brown ploughed field, tiring to walk across when damp. Spring to May: Green field, increasing cover as crop grows. Yeah, ok - just call me Farmer Giles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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