John Kettler Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 The other day I was busy exploring the latest additions to the awesome Russian Military Zone site (www.history.enjoy.ru) when I blundered across a link to some Russian firing tests on a pair of captured King Tigers. These tests were official tests conducted by the ministry responsible for tank technology. For some reason, the exact link isn't listing properly, but if you go to www.history.enjoy.ru/library/index.htm then go to "Weapons" you'll find it under "Was the King Tiger Really King?" Not only are the firing results reported and stunningly shown in a long series of photos, but there is a wealth of material on everything from vehicle reliability to late war German metallurgical problems. This is a must read for any armor buff. While you're visiting, be sure to check out the Panther damage under "Casualties." There you'll find a spectacular shot of the few remains of a Panther directly hit by a 100 kg (220 lb.) aerial bomb. Definitely attention getting! Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Actual direct link is Was the Tiger really "King"? [This message has been edited by Ol' Blood & Guts (edited 03-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 That is very sad for me to now learn that my favorite tank wasnt what it was "cracked" up to be(excuse the pun.) I just hope that BTS doesnt give it a penalty and Sherms start putting dents in it at 1000 yards. Ray ------------------ SWAT 3 Page Panzer Elite-Updated Combat Mission(comming soon)Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s bakker Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 I wonder what the sequence of test firing was. If they first fired 122mm and 152mm rounds at close range (<500m) at it, i sure as hell believe welds would come lose and smaller rounds could pentrate the ruptured/cracked armor. For example, quote; "The left side of the turret. Impact #43, made by a 122 mm high-explosive shell, caused the armor to fracture." Geez, after being hit at almost the same spot by what looks a same 122mm HE round. Talk about punishment. Very nice article all the same though. The Russians are harsh, don't they respect animal rights? Look at what they did to the poor beast! Grtz S Bakker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 ... and I wonder what octane fuel they used for the range and mobility tests. Regards Jon ------------------ Ubique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 Interesting stuff. I'd like to see comparable data on other tanks. Imagine German evaluations of T-34s and IS series vehicles............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 The reported mechanical unreliability of the KT is not surprising at all. That they were practically immobile is well known. Hitler's best panzer generals did not prefer the heavy tanks, tigerI or II, as their limited mobility did not excel at offensive operations or elastic defenses. However, at this late stage of the war the germans were almost completely defensive, a task for which the Tiger II was well suited. According to the report, TigerII frontal armor is foolproof against the russian 76 and 85mm guns. These guns probably armed 95% of the russian tank force even in '45. In any case, the formidable part of the tigerII is it's L71 88mm. By the russians own admission the l56 88 is superior to their own 100mm AP and their 100mm AP completely penetrated the TigerII frontal turret armor from long range. Imagine the effect of L71 88mm AP on 95% of russian armor from any aspect angle and any range. Most KTII were killed by airstrikes, artillery concentrations, immobility kills, or just plain abandoned and captured because they were to slow to get away or too heavy to cross a bridge, rather than enemy gun kills. Even in the last months of the war attacking russian armor was typically annihilated in large numbers when confronted with heavy german armor. The KTII was a waste of resources, but still very intimidating, particularly on the western front where the allied armor was armed with pop-guns for the most part right up until the end of the war. The fact that the KTII is going to break down in a few hours doesn't help sgt snuffy in his generic M4 looking down the barrel of an L71 88mm in our 30-round game of CM. Getting out and trying to disassemble the KTII with a monkeywrench could only improve this unfortunate individual's chances. -ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Getting out and trying to disassemble the KTII with a monkeywrench could only improve this unfortunate individual's chances.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Can we do this in CM? US Army Ordnance Enemy Armor Disassembly teams... [This message has been edited by R Cunningham (edited 03-31-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by s bakker: I wonder what the sequence of test firing was. If they first fired 122mm and 152mm rounds at close range (<500m) at it, i sure as hell believe welds would come lose and smaller rounds could pentrate the ruptured/cracked armor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, this does bring up a "thing to make you say Hmmmm." Well, yes. How 'bout pounding a King Tiger with modern 120~125mm SABOT rounds. Of course the armor is going to buckle and split. But 75~85mm AP rounds of the day could barely scratch it. Sure those 122mm and 152mm rounds were punching holes in it. A shell that size can punch holes in today's armor. But it is, nonetheless, an intersting article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 This is also a very good link. It shows gun penetrations at different distances. http://www.history.enjoy.ru/library/weapons6.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 The most interesting is that Russian 57mm AT is better then 76mm AT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UserName* Posted March 31, 2000 Share Posted March 31, 2000 I am wondering if those two tigers were produced at the end of the war. I have read somewhere that the same was true for other german armor towards the end of the war. Namely lack of raw materials and taking shortcuts. The Germans used an electric current hardening process I believe on armor also. Maybe this step was skipped just to get a mobile 88mm out to the troops?. In any event, I wonder if there are American "shoots" done on captured armored vehicles. Perhaps buried somewhere at Aberdeen. Lewis PS At Aberdeen by the way is a JagdTigerII with a front hull hit right on the interlocking welds. Whatever hit it didnt go through but definitely caused daylight to appear inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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