Oberst Angsthase Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 I was playing with the Chance Encounter scenario trying to hone my skills at deploying assault guns. Repeatedly my Stugs would get toasted. The last time all three Stugs were positioned so they each confronted a single tank (as opposed to being exposed to 4 or 5), two of them had the drop on their opponents. In all three cases they were killed without so much as scratching the paint on the Shermans. I've used Hetzers and Jgpzrs to great effect, but the Stugs seem to be magnetic to AP rounds. Breathed into the bag, rant complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oberst Angsthase: I was playing with the Chance Encounter scenario trying to hone my skills at deploying assault guns. Repeatedly my Stugs would get toasted. The last time all three Stugs were positioned so they each confronted a single tank (as opposed to being exposed to 4 or 5), two of them had the drop on their opponents. In all three cases they were killed without so much as scratching the paint on the Shermans. I've used Hetzers and Jgpzrs to great effect, but the Stugs seem to be magnetic to AP rounds. Breathed into the bag, rant complete.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> God, this reminds me of the years-long argument among engineers on whether Kludge should be pronounced Kloodge, Klooje, or Klodge (discussed recently in IEEE Spectrum magazine). Anyway, since Stug comes from German, I guess that it should be pronounced with the u like in French Henri [This message has been edited by Henri (edited 08-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattus Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 But there is no U in French? (That was terrible) A U mit umlauts! (worse - groan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWorthing Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 As with everything in the game, it's the way you use it and luck. I've played against the AI where I knocked out all those shermies with the stugs in just a couple of turns. I've had games with the ai where it knocked out all of my stugs. I've played CE pbem where I've I had one stug left vs. 2 Sherms. Both KO'd in the same turn. You have to be patient with those stugs, I guess. They seem to work better in ambush roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuse Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 It really is a lot of luck. First time I played that Scenario in the Demo I just ran a couple shermans up on that hill and a minute later, no more stugs. Every time after that, no matter how careful I was, they would kill me with extreme prejudice. ------------------ Upon the fields of friendly strife, are sown the seeds of Victory. ---Douglas McArthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 11, 2000 Share Posted August 11, 2000 After a series of pointless and by no means exhaustive tests, based on assumed premises, faulty logic and a good deal of Valpolicella, I have correlated, annotated and indexed the results, coming in the end to the following inescapable conclusions: StuGs suck. Marders REALLY suck. Hetzers, however, merely blow. There's no point arguing -- no, I shan't listen. You're clearly wrong. I've said it. It's carved in stone, now go away. ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JWorthing: You have to be patient with those stugs, I guess. They seem to work better in ambush roles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Which historically is precisely how they were intended to be used, against tanks at least. They were expected to set ambushes, fire a few salvos, get a few hits, and withdraw to the next fighting position before the enemy had a chance to return fire. They weren't expected to go toe to toe against tanks. The Jagdpanther, on the other hand... Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEF BUNGIS Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 And in Chance encounter I guess you could call them the three stooges. ------------------ Better to make the wrong decision than be the sorry son of a bitch to scared to make one at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Mr. Worthing knows whereof he speaks on the subject. Mr. F. Babra is completely wrong. The holes in his argument are patently obvious, and require no further refutation. To summarize: they do NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Do too! ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 RE: The marder's.. they rock! they really do! keep useing them! ------------------ Shoot first and your a hero, shoot second and your a casualty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Oh, Thrash, Thrash, Thrash... my poor deluded Thrash. Was it not enough to punch 76mm holes in the tissue paper armour of my Marders? Was it not enough to detonate and de-tread my Hetzers with armour-piercing mortar fire? Were you not satisfied playing quick-draw with my StuGs? Was there something missing from your "total" (cough) victory? Oh, it's sad, very, very sad... Soon you will no doubt be lauding the merits of hamsters and "Heil"ing Herr Peng. I shall call up the TV Evangelist and purchase a prayer for your salvation. Marders rock indeed... Blech! ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra: Do too!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This torrent of unfounded speculation, specious arguments, questionable documentation, and thinly-veiled insults must be stopped. The issue can only be decided on the Field of Honor. [sLAP] Send me your setup. [This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 08-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra: Oh, Thrash, Thrash, Thrash... my poor deluded Thrash. Was it not enough to punch 76mm holes in the tissue paper armour of my Marders? Was it not enough to detonate and de-tread my Hetzers with armour-piercing mortar fire? Were you not satisfied playing quick-draw with my StuGs? Was there something missing from your "total" (cough) victory? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ROTFLMAO, Marder's do suck when you run em across an open ridge infront of m18's, and shermans . Tucked behind a hill or on the backside of a building, or into a little niche in some woods the marder is a potent weapon in ambush, but raceing them across a ridge is only courting disaster . We need to play again [This message has been edited by Thrash (edited 08-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrash Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Then again... Marder's do suck now that I think about it. Your right babs . ------------------ Shoot first and your a hero, shoot second and your a casualty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Well, I hate to bring more fuel to the fire, but I must say that everyone here is ignoring the 2nd most useless vehicle in the game (1st being the Kubelwagen ). The Archer. ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: The issue can only be decided on the Field of Honor. [sLAP] Send me your setup. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Setup in progress. Have some chores to do today, so it will be a while. It will be armoured, as I presume you intend to defend the (cough) honour of the aforementioned StuGs and Marders (which are not fit for Chinchilla cages on a good day). Remember, the hotkey combination you are most interested in is "ALT U". Practice that. ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. [This message has been edited by Formerly Babra (edited 08-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Weaver Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 Hetzers? I didn't think those were tanks. They seem more like some kind of battlefield illumination device. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 12, 2000 Share Posted August 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Formerly Babra: Setup in progress<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "You may fire when you are ready, Gridley." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Hellooooooooooooooooooooo! .......Helloooooooooooooo! ...............Helloooooo! (All together): Hello! Mr. F. Babra, meet the Larry, Moe, and Curley of the Three StuGs. Brit tank left- CLANG! (burning) "Nyah-ah-ah-ah...!" Brit tank right- CLANG! "Woowoowoowoowoowoo!" Brit tank up the middle- CLANG! (burning) "Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk!" On a far more serious note, one StuG has perished in a head-to-head showdown at under 100m with a Firefly, as did the aptly named Firefly. You will be relieved to know the StuG crew escaped completely unharmed, and will be used for the balance of the game as LRRP Ninja Assault Specialists. Additionally, there is a small but unsightly blemish in the paint of one of my "suck"ey, but healthy and victorious, STuGs (yes, I am giving some info away, as your flaming hulk probably did not have time to identify it). The battle for the Honor of the falsely maligned StuG is being conducted in Fog, on a map the size of Sudan, of M. Babra's construction (I thought it was CM2 when I opened the file). It is now dragging into Turn 4. Updates will follow. You must have the old 1.03 version- I tried Alt-U in my triple-secret beta v.1.04 release, and it enables "Uebertank" mode. Thanks for the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: Which historically is precisely how they were intended to be used, against tanks at least. They were expected to set ambushes, fire a few salvos, get a few hits, and withdraw to the next fighting position before the enemy had a chance to return fire. They weren't expected to go toe to toe against tanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, they were not expected to do so... I can tell, however, of a case where StuG's were used in a counter-attack role in the east front. StuGs were advancing along a road, when the lead units commander spotted a T-34/85 on the left - 15 metres away! Driver turned instantly 90 degrees and gunner hit with the first shot, resulting in KO. Maybe the T-34 crew was drunk or sleeping, because it didn't fire even once. Ms. Fortune was smiling to the StuG crew, however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kford Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Kubelwagons do not suck. They are great scout cars and can get over all kinds of terrain. Now if you are using them against tanks, well you get what you get. I just wish I had one instead of my 1974 VW Thing (descendant of the kubelwagon). Not that I mind my "modern" 181, I would rather own an original Type 82 Kubelwagoen, 36 HP and all. Thanks, Kevin "Anywhere a camel can go, a Kubelwagen can follow" -Erwin Rommel <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IntelWeenie: Well, I hate to bring more fuel to the fire, but I must say that everyone here is ignoring the 2nd most useless vehicle in the game (1st being the Kubelwagen ). The Archer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Sergei wrote: Maybe the T-34 crew was drunk or sleeping, because it didn't fire even once. Ms. Fortune was smiling to the StuG crew, however... I might add a few details on that account. (Sergei may correct me if I picked the wrong battle. Also, my sources are home so this may not be completely correct). That encounter happened at Kuuterselkä during the night between June 14 and 15 in 1944. Note that at the time of year there's no real dark period in Finland, only a dusk that lasts for a couple of hours after midnight. The Finnish counter attack (conducted with Assault Gun Batallion (Sturms) and Jääkäri brigade) crashed into the spearhead of Soviet advance a couple of hours after they had broken the second line (VT-line) of Finnish defence at Kuuterselkä. The Soviet formations were distrupted by a large bombing run that destroyed ~10 tanks and assault guns. The Soviets were in process of securing the breakthrough while their recon elements were probing forward when the counter attack came. The Soviet tankers were surprised by Finnish Stugs as they hadn't seen any Finnish AFVs before during the campaign. The T-34 that Sergei mentioned was not the only Soviet tank destroyed in that attack. The first victims were a platoon of T-34s that Corporal Lagus (son of the division commander Ruben Lagus) torched. Those tanks were stopped in tight formation in the middle of the road. During the attack Lieutenant Olli Aulanko drove his Stug over a horse-drawn AT battery, crushing the guns and animals beneath the treads. In the end the counter attack failed when Soviets poured reinforcements in the area. Finns lost 5 Stugs (one intact when its crew abandoned it) and Soviets lost 19 tanks to Stugs, and a few to Panzershrecks. In addition, a couple of Stugs were damaged. The total Soviet tank losses were a little over 30, IIRC, according to Soviet sources but this figure includes those killed in the bombing run. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted August 15, 2000 Share Posted August 15, 2000 Correction to my own post: The T-34 that Sergei mentioned was not the only Soviet tank destroyed in that attack. The first victims were a platoon of T-34s that Corporal Lagus (son of the division commander Ruben Lagus) torched. The T-34 that Sergei mentioned was first one of the 4 T-34s destroyed by Olof Lagus. (His vehicle was commanded by Lt. Sartio). - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 16, 2000 Share Posted August 16, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: "Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Scandalous! Outrageous! INCONCEIVABLE! (I do not think that means what you think that means...) Truly though, the map is of the computer's making -- my mere mortal mind cannot conceive visions of such enormous enormousness, let alone reduce them to a playing field. But it is only turn 4... Vengeance may be the Lord's but I'm happy to help him out on this one. Button up, Herr Lemming, the damn-damn is coming down... ------------------ Lucasta, when to France your man Returns his fourth time, hating war, Yet laughs as calmly as he can And flings an oath, but says no more, That is not courage, that’s not fear— Lucasta he’s a Fusilier, And his pride sends him here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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