Mike D Posted May 5, 2000 Share Posted May 5, 2000 Appologies if this has been answered elsewhere. I searched and read through a number of threads and didn't see an answer to this specific question: Can tanks be used to remove / destroy barbed wire in order to allow infantry and wheeled vehicles to pass through the area without penalty? Thanks, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Nope, I don't think that is in. I know it was common in WW1 but special equipment is often needed to do it reliably and this wasn't at all common on WW2 tanks. Any dissent backed by research? Personally I just never heard much about this in personal histories or unit reports but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Fionn, one other question. does barbed wire act as a total block? Or can infantry cross it (just at a major disadvantage)? Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 They (infantry) can cross it but they do so VERY VERY VERY VERY slowly...Same with roadblocks (which vehicles can NOT cross)... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! And if it's NOT on CMHQ then its just GOT to be on CMHQ-ANNEX... CMHQ http://combathq.thegamers.net CMHQ-Annex http://cmhq.tzo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Thanks Matt. Thats what I figured. Lorak ------------------ http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Can roadblocks be destroyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 No, roadblocks can not be destroyed. I agree with Fionn about barbed wire being torn out by tanks. Matt is correct about movement. I surprised an AI controlled squad last week. It was going through some barbed wire when I had some hidden HMG42s spring into action. Whole squad, eliminated in about a half a minute. Basically the unit was "stuck" and in the open at about 200m. Easy target. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 A related question, Can vehicles pass thru the barbed wire? Is there a movement penalty for them , similar to the infantry penalty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TURBO Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Is it possible for afv's to get bogged in wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 BTS's announcement that roadblocks can't be destroyed came as quite a surprise to me. I thought that combat engineers and such had demolishing roadblocks as a standard combat task for which they were specifically trained. Is my information wrong, or is this more of a coding/CPU hit problem? I'd very much like to know. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Coding/time thing. I am pretty sure Engineer destruction of roadblocks is on The List somehwere. But then, of course, we would get calls for several different types of roadblocks since some would not be possible to breech on the fly. Reinforced steel and concrete laughs at little baby satchel charges Seriously, they could easily clear something like a bunch of felled trees or perhaps a small pile of debris, but not a large one. Sticky situation Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 It is a crime not to cover barbed wire obstacles with direct fire and, any infantry unit which is brought under direct fire while passing through barbed wire. It looks to me like Matt chose to walk through 3 of my minefields rather than pass through barbed wire in our PBEM game. His engineers then turned around and totally destroyed one of my minefields with a satchel charge (nice TacAI programming there Charles.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Hey Fionn, maybe that was C99. My question is did the Chinese units come out of the hole and help??? Or were they too busy defending against the Japanese in CM99? Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." MantaRays 5 Pages Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 I think I speak for everyone when I say "Huh, Ray?" I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted May 6, 2000 Share Posted May 6, 2000 Hmmmm I could understand if light tanks and some mediums couldnt pass through road blocks. However doncha think a Heavy tank like a Tiger could pretty much trample roadblocks and barbed wire? ------------------ The names Ash, Housewares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 7, 2000 Share Posted May 7, 2000 1. I'd shoot any of my Tiger commanders who tried to go OVER a roadblock instead of around it. Why risk passing over a prepared demolitions charge or triggering an ambush or coming down onto an AT mine OR getting your suspension system (one of the most vulnerable systems in a tank) shredded by wire, spiked etc? I could get M-kills on a huge variety of tanks if their commanders were stupid enough to advance OVER a roadblock. Sure it looks flashy in war movies but we all know that if we did the things we see in war movies in real life we'd get killed. This is no different. Sure, tanks can clamber over roadblocks if they want to but the possibilities for damage are so high that it just makes a hell of a lot more sense to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted May 7, 2000 Share Posted May 7, 2000 I can tell you from first hand experience that getting a bunch of concertina wire wrapped around your sprocket is BAD news. Not only does it get impossibly tangled, but it can cause moving parts to overheat and break. Basically, it could immobilize a tank fairly quickly. Consequently, if CM truly realistic (which it IS from everything I've seen ), players should be occaisionally penalized with immobile vehicles for trying to drive across a wire obstacle. That's what the ol' engineers are for ------------------ The original point and click interface was a Smith and Wesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindicide Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 I don't know how most wire was made passable but I found a pic last night showing US troops using a Bangalore torpedo to remove a mass of wire.Seems like an eminently sensible way to go about the task to me, assuming the terrain allows it's use.Don't know if it's in the game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 Fionn asked: Any dissent backed by research? Mannerheim line during early parts of Winter War. Soviets drived T-26 and T-28 tanks over Finnish wire obstacles to crush them. I don't know how good results they actually got. And sure, Finns mined the obstacles with AT mines but Soviets had more tanks than we had mines. (There was more than one case where Soviets managed to find _all_ Finnish AT mines in a minefield with their tanks). However, the situation at Summa and Taipale was very different than most battles of WWII because: 1) Finns had only few AT guns, no tanks, and very little artillery ammunition, so the Soviet tanks were practically safe as long as they didn't come to Molotov coctail range. 2) Soviet troops were poorly trained and lacked engineering specialists who could have cleared passages through wire the conventional way. Also, in the beginning of the war Soviet artillery was too inaccurate to clear the obstacles. 3) Soviets didn't mind losing a couple of tanks in the process. Actually, at Summa they crossed one AT-ditch by first driving a turretless T-26 into the ditch and driving the rest tanks over it. I'd shoot any of my Tiger commanders who tried to go OVER a roadblock instead of around it. During the encirclement battle at Raate road (January '40) the initial road blocking force had one 37 mm Bofors gun with them. The gun first surprised a couple of trucks that were bound to East. When Soviets realized that the road was blocked, they sent a detachment from the 44th division's tank batallion. The first tank to attack was a T-28. The Finnish gunners were worried because they didn't know whether their gun could penetrate the frontal armor of the brute. However, the tank commander decided to drive over the first destroyed truck, and showed the bottom of his tank to the AT gunners. The result: one destroyed T-28 and the rest attackers withdrew. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G2A Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 Speaking of Finland, will the Winter War be in the Eastern Front CM? I'd much rather play that than just the German-Soviet thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted May 8, 2000 Share Posted May 8, 2000 Sorry, I forgot perhaps the most important item from my list: 4) The wire-crushing wasn't done during an attack. It was done either before an attack to prepare for it, or after an attack when the infantry had been thrown back and the tankers didn't want to return to their own lines, yet. The tanks would then drive around the no-man's land firing their guns at Finnish trenches and crushing all obstacles they would find. (And blowing up all AT-mines, too...) - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted May 9, 2000 Share Posted May 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by G2A: Speaking of Finland, will the Winter War be in the Eastern Front CM? I'd much rather play that than just the German-Soviet thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> From what I have heard/read, it will have everyting, everywhere, every time of the war between Germany and the Soviet Union from 1941-45, so yes it would be in. Anyone heard differently? ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted May 9, 2000 Share Posted May 9, 2000 Hehe. Yeah well the russkies were somewhat "unusual" . I believe in Soviet Strategic Doctrine and German Tactical Doctrine. I think mixing those two doctrines produces the best results on the battlefield but the Soviet prediliction for clearing minefields with tanks and human bodies is one thing I wouldn't replicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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