Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Some of you guys crack me up. You want me to "accept" some of the "enthusiasm" some of you show for one of the most heinous nations ever to exist on the face of the earth? Many of you are moaning about "were I stand" regarding Germany (i.e., my profile), and those that fought for it. Many of you are trying to "enlighten" me to "accept" the Germanophile attitude that is prevalent here. Okay, if I've "offended" any of you that are Germanophile, I apologize for expressing my opinions regarding Nazi Germany. I understand that I need to fall in line with the rest of you, and just follow orders and accept things… you have the numbers and argue from that position. (sounds familiar, eh?) Let us silence those that speak out against this evil. Was it your grandfather that tried to liquidate my family because they were "Untermenshcen" or subhuman. Maybe. Maybe not. I hope you will find out though. Was it your grandfather that put people in the ovens? Maybe? Maybe not? But, I hope you will find out though. People are directly responsible for their actions, not just following orders. You have every right to love the Nazis and support them. I have every right to hate them for the German policy of Lebensraum and systematic elimination of my family. For some of you, it may be easy to accept the Germanophiles. Maybe your families weren't touched by the wrath of darkness that walked across Europe. Maybe some of you have no idea what it is like to lose an entire family, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc. JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE A CERTAIN RACE. I can only think about the loss, and what could have been. I apologize for my strong beliefs, however morally right they are. ------------------ Doc We kicked those German butts in WWII!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterNZer Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 --------------- | Don't Feed | | The Troll .. | |__________| . . . | | . . . | | ___\/\/\/___ PeterNZ [This message has been edited by PeterNZer (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I think this one might be locked up soon.. (I think that's a hint) -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 "Nazis" and racists are subsets of mankind. "Germans" is not a subset of "Nazis". Racism is certainly NOT a German invention. Maybe you could separate "Nazis" from "Germans", Professor. And maybe even if you did you might oversimplify in a way that would have made a true "Nazi" proud. Sincerely, Thomm P.S.: How would you classify Wernher von Braun, by the way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCrawler Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Some of you guys crack me up. You want me to "accept" some of the "enthusiasm" some of you show for one of the most heinous nations ever to exist on the face of the earth? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I tend to think that the Roman empire was as bad or worse than the Third Reich. All of you Romanophiles and Caesar lovers will rot in Hell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 *Klick* goes the lock and *plink* goes the key in a very very deep hole Cue Steve! and me? exit stage left! pleaze pleaze Steve, lock this thing up before it gets out of hand. radicals both left and right wing on this board tarnish this community and make me feel like throwing in the towel and never posting or read this crap again. ----------- "The right to be heard does not autmatically include the right to be taken seriously" -Hubert Humphrey [This message has been edited by mensch (edited 08-25-2000).] [This message has been edited by mensch (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I agree with PeterNZer. ------------------ -Work Hard -Type Fast -Save Often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WendellM Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 This may well be a troll (I haven't encountered "Dr. Brian" before). But on the off chance that it's sincere: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Okay, if I've "offended" any of you that are Germanophile, I apologize for expressing my opinions regarding Nazi Germany. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I am something of a Germanophile, but I share your disdain for the Nazis. My German "leanings" are centered in the 18th century, but also go back to Roman times and into post-reunification times. The deplorable "swastika years" are IMO some of the worst that nation was ever forced to live through (by some of her own people). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Maybe your families weren't touched by the wrath of darkness [...] JUST BECAUSE THEY WERE A CERTAIN RACE.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hmm... Do be careful not to condemn all Germans "just because they are a certain race" based on what part of one generation of Germans instigated... And as for my family, I have a (living) great-uncle who was an American medic at Normandy. I also have a (deceased) great-grandmother who was an immigrant from Germany around the turn of the century. They both matter to me. [This message has been edited by WendellM (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Mr. Brian: You seem to be intent upon re-fighting the Second World War on this BBS. That is unfortunate. Everyone is entitle to their opinion, and everyone even has the right to believe that their opinion if irrefutably correct and all that disagree are worthless, but, this BBS is about the military aspect of WW2, not the political. If you incist on labeling other forumers as racist or Nazis because of their name or which side they play in a computer game you will have flame wars going on left and right. This may be your intention for all I know, but Steve and Charles won't tolerate it for long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marnix Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: You want me to "accept" some of the "enthusiasm" some of you show for one of the most heinous nations ever to exist on the face of the earth?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents." -- Robert F. Kennedy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> [This message has been edited by Marnix (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Thought this was an apology.. Guess I missed it...Oh wait, there it is--buried, lOCKED UP in the message like this post should be.... ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mensch Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I see an evil Pyre growing here, and as mentioned the troll is being fed... and fast. STEVE! please lock this up or at least send Guido and Nuzio over to shoot me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadayne Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I'm officially donating my two cents to pay for a lock for this thread. anyone can see this is just a continuation of the "please respect major howard" thread that was locked up for a very good reason -a reason that still applies here!!!! [This message has been edited by Jadayne (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadayne Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 might I also suggest somekind of a warning system for when people try to continue locked threads. Something like "3 strikes and you're banned". Dr. Brian battlefront forum profile, interests:Teaching the world that Nazi Germany and those that fought for it were evil. um, hothead alert? ------------------ "Well then private, it must be sh*t. Good thing we didn't step in it." [This message has been edited by Jadayne (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperscope Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 It's just a game to have some fun. Everything else that's not related to "CM" the game is just bull****. sniperscope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Before this gets locked up I'd just like to add. Yikes!! This guy is a professor.. Bet he has some interesting class discussions.. ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted August 25, 2000 Author Share Posted August 25, 2000 A lot of you are pathetic. I came on this board to discuss CM, and you go off on me for my opinions because I dislike Nazis? My first Topics, were: 1) FNG - Hello, I like this game; 2) Major John Howard; and 3) Fuzzy Logic in CM. In 2 and 3, I get "blasted" for my signatures and profile of how I find Nazis reprehensible. And you expect me to be "silent?" Some of these screen names are offensive to me. But hey, you guys are the hypocrites. I am not allowed to find anything offensive. Pathetic! Yeah, please, lock this up. I'm appaled at some of you. ------------------ Doc We kicked those Axis Powers (Germany and Japan, and all those that fought for them) butts in WWII!!! [This message has been edited by Dr. Brian (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leclerc Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Too bored to see what this Bulletin board has become in the last weeks. Good bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Thanks for differentiating between Germans and Nazis! Sincerely, Thomm P.S.: I bet MOST of the guys with questionable screen names are NOT Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abbott Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Wow, saturday morning cartoons on friday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: A lot of you are pathetic. I am not allowed to find anything offensive. Pathetic! Yeah, please, lock this up. I'm appaled at some of you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "I am not allowed to find anything offensive. Pathetic!" I think this is a very tolerent Forum and you are of course "allowed" to find anything you want offensive, you can even call it offensive, but thanks to the wonders of freedom of speach we are ALL free to verbally offend who ever we want, this offensivness. Dr. Brian you might find my defense of Freedom of speach offensive. You clearly find some of the user names here offensive. Thats fine. Is it possible that some users here find it offensive that you have a long memory and continue to raise the issue of the holocaust? I have read all your posts and you brought up the subject first. The fact that 6 million people were killed in death camps in WWII has NOTHING to do with This game, BTS or the love or military history or german or allied stratedgy or tactics in WWII. This game does not model tactics that include jewish people or civililans in any way.Its about battalion level WWII combat tactics and that has nothing to do with Nazi atrocities. This thread is degenerating into a major flame war, but it my opinion that While the players here of German descent know their ancestors did not win the war they are usually alot less vocal or sensitive to the loss as those of jewish ancestory here like yourself who seem to take any opportunity to raise the issue of the holocaust in this forum. It happened 55 years ago and it has nothing to do with the enjoyment of German WWII strategy and tactics and our interest in Military history. Its is you who has raised this non issue in a forum of folks interested in the study of Military history of WWII. This thread will be locked soon. The sooner the better. -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I bet MOST of the guys with questionable screen names are NOT Germans.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Heh,Rollstoy,I'd go even farther-I would bet that *none* of those guys are German. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigDug Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 "University Professor"? Ya, sure. If you really are one, you aren't a good one. A good professor strips away emotion and opinion from his legitimate arguments, and ponders the facts and motivations for subjects like Nazi Germany. You clearly have no interest in acting "professor-like", as all I've seen from you is pure over- generalistic name calling. Let me teach you something perfesser. The Nazis rose to power not out of some vile flaw in the Germanic people's character or ethics, or an inherent hate of Jews or any other ethnic group. The Nazis rose to power in the vacuum of utter desperation, in a country that had been ravaged in WWI in many different ways; economically, socially, and politically. Post-war Germany in the 1920's-1930's was a destitute, isolated, and scorned country. Hitler used the total desperation of his countrymen to carry out his own twisted agenda, and very systematically turned them into pawns to perform his evil bidding. He promised them economic fortune, national resurgence of pride and interational stature, and their "rightful" place in Europe. He soothed their fears, instilled hope where there previously was none, and made the German people feel proud to BE German people. Hitler was the sole evil force behind the Nazis...his orchestration of the Nazi party was simultaneously brilliant, masterful, and hideously evil. Of course, he had a few equally evil men at the highest ranks to help him accomplish his goals, but used them like high-powered chess pieces nontheless. In those circumstance, ANY people, country, county, city, whatever...is susceptible to carrying out even more atrocious actions than the Nazi party did. This is not a German issue, it is a HUMAN issue, and we are all vulnerable to being gripped by this same evil provided the circumstances are in place. Unfortunately, the Germans have to live with it on their record, and be subjected to the kinds of irrational and opinionated dribble that you've poured all over this board. So perfesser, don't get all bent out of shape and claim that you're being required to "fall in line" (thereby drawing a not-so-subtle analogy to Facism). Nothing could be further from the truth. This board and its members always encourage good, rational discussion. You've only made one mistake, as I see it: You don't know what the F*** you're talking about. [This message has been edited by DigDug (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DigDug: "University Professor"? Ya, sure. If you really are one, you aren't a good one. You've only made one mistake, as I see it: You don't know what the F*** you're talking about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok now I love freedom of speach but THAT was an unwarrented personal attack and I suspect a MAJOR flame war is brewing here as Dr. Brian will surely write back with somthing equally if not more offensive. Name calling and all this profanity may well indeed be found to be unwelcome here. This is a ground breaking 3D game and it has now been patched 5 times since its release. Lets just focus on Combat Mission and let the rest of this stuff go. please... -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melloj Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I find these threads extremely one-sided. Everyone always focuses on Germany as being the greatest evil for the genocide they inflicted on the various populations of Europe. "Only Germans could have been so evil as to develop this NAZI ideology" Let me tell you, any human being of any race is capable of sinking to certain depths as soon as certain criteria are met. Enough despair, enough humiliation, enough oppression, enough PRIDE and anyone would perform evil acts. Not too many people condemn the U.S for the ethnic cleansing of the Native Indian populations. No one condemns Canada for placing innocent people of Japanese origin in camps. British slaughter and oppression of countless races and cultures in Africa and Asia, its romantic history to most. Even in todays age, where we are all liberal and enlightend we have situations as those in Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Checnia. To pick one of these incidents, and demonize only one of these cultures is being hypocritical, and perpetuating the ignorance and tunnel vision that contribute to the suffering. The "we Can do no evil" characteristics of every nation on the planet is one of the things that causes the suffering many have experienced. And before you label me as another "german who loves his Nazis" I am Polish. Many of my family members went through the evil of the Second World War. But I choose not to blame, not to seek some twisted revenge, but to learn what leads to situations such as those, and to keep myself in check from ever thinking like Dr.Dave apparently does. Thats all from this soapbox. [This message has been edited by Melloj (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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