Gronk Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 Why is the Super Pershing cheaper than the Pershing? The super has more armor and a better gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 *Quickly puts hand over Gronk's mouth* Psst... This'll be just our little secret, okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 Regular Pershing is faster, can carry a squad of infantry, has a faster turret, faster rate of fire and can hold more ammo. Enough reasons for ya? Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 NOOOOO!!!! Revolut... *I/O goes down under Moderator's clubs* Actually, those are fine reasons. ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronk Posted December 6, 2000 Author Share Posted December 6, 2000 All very good reasons... I bow before your great knowledge. Is there a formula for deciding unit cost or is it a Steve/Charles judgement call? [This message has been edited by Gronk (edited 12-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 They fight it out, no holds barred combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gronk: Is there a formula for deciding unit cost or is it a Steve/Charles judgement call?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes there is a formula. Exactly what the formula is, however, seems to be a well guarded, highly classified, secret... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuerte Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: Regular Pershing is faster, can carry a squad of infantry, has a faster turret, faster rate of fire and can hold more ammo.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I bought the Super Pershing instead of regular one in one PBEM game. Guess what happened? Super didn't fire even once before it was killed by a German AA gun. Its turret was just too slow... the German AA gun reversed faster, and the increased armor in Super was not enough for it. It hit three times, first destroyed the tracks and then the gun. My crew bailed out. [This message has been edited by Fuerte (edited 12-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: Regular Pershing is faster, can carry a squad of infantry, has a faster turret, faster rate of fire and can hold more ammo. Enough reasons for ya? Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No .......... Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. February 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzlehead Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 The real question to ask is, "Why are there no Hi-Res Mods for the Pershing?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Maenpaa Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: Regular Pershing is faster, can carry a squad of infantry, has a faster turret, faster rate of fire and can hold more ammo. Enough reasons for ya? Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK, but why is the Jagdtiger more expensive than the King Tiger? JT has even slower ROF than Super Pershing, has no turret at all, has much smaller ammo load than KT, has only one MG and very little ammo for it. Also it's muzzle velocity is slower than KT's. I think that JT's battle worthiness in general is considerably lower than KT's. Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jaja Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 Why is the Super Pershing even included in Combat Mission? There were only two produced. Combat Mission leaves out much more plentiful vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 Possibly because the Jagdtiger has a smaller profile, making it harder to spot than the beastly King Tiger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jaja: Why is the Super Pershing even included in Combat Mission? There were only two produced. Combat Mission leaves out much more plentiful vehicles.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Cause Charles thought it looked cool and it didn't require a whole new 3D model. The Jadgetiger is more expensive (a paltry 8 points) because of the overwhelming better penetration of its main gun (128mm), lower ground pressure (less chance of bogging) and better armor protection for the front and sides. While the Super Pershing also has a better gun and protection it is a much smaller margin of improvement than the differences between the Jadgtiger and King Tiger. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Maenpaa Posted April 22, 2001 Share Posted April 22, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt: The Jadgetiger is more expensive (a paltry 8 points) because of the overwhelming better penetration of its main gun (128mm), lower ground pressure (less chance of bogging) and better armor protection for the front and sides. While the Super Pershing also has a better gun and protection it is a much smaller margin of improvement than the differences between the Jadgtiger and King Tiger. Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm just playing a game where I have a Jagdtiger. Well, just one lucky artillery grenade was enough to immobilize it. And because JT hasn't got a turret, it instantly turned out to be a sitting jackpot for my opponent to reclaim. A King Tiger or Super Pershing in similar circumstances would be able to defend themselves at least. Now I have to use my scarce forces just to protect the helpless JT. I think that even with the superheavy armament and frontal armor the JT shouldn't cost as much as a Pershing, Super Pershing or King Tiger. It gives so much bigger risks to it's controller, because of lack of the turret. Ari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther131 Posted April 22, 2001 Share Posted April 22, 2001 Interesting points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busboy Posted April 22, 2001 Share Posted April 22, 2001 You will find an OUTSTANDING hi-res mod for the M26 on the Combat Mission.net website. Its "Made by Tiger " http://www.combat-missions.net/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted April 22, 2001 Share Posted April 22, 2001 In my experience, the difference between these super-heavies are well justified. During the course of one game, my opponent had a JagdTiger on a cliff. I attacked it frontally with Super Pershings and half a dozen Hellcats, flanked it with 3 more Hellcats, bounced off shells of every caliber and at every range, to no effect. Shells were bouncing left and right off this monster, tungsten or not, from the left, right, and rear of its armor. Then again, later in the game, I offed a KT with a flank shot by an M-18 from 150m off. Maybe its just luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Maenpaa Posted April 22, 2001 Share Posted April 22, 2001 Commissar, I don't question JT's battle worthiness in optimal conditions like in your description. Although I have KO'ed JT frontally via weak spot penetration. Also KT's and JT's side and rear armor are almost identical. JT isn't any tougher than KT. But my main point is: what about when everything doesn't go as planned? What then when the big beast gets immobilized by artillery or lucky AT-gun hit or something else? Not very uncommon incident, I would say. It's a totally different situation to have an immobilized KT (which can still defend itself because of rotating turret) than an immobilized JT (which is almost totally helpless against attacks from sides and behind). I just don't think that the JT should be as expensive as the KT. Ari [ 04-22-2001: Message edited by: Ari Maenpaa ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Maybe I'm just having hallucinations again, but I seem to remember the JagdTiger used to cost less than the King variant. But the prices were changed for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ari Maenpaa: I'm just playing a game where I have a Jagdtiger. ... it instantly turned out to be a sitting jackpot for my opponent to reclaim. Now I have to use my scarce forces just to protect the helpless JT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I had a similar situation in a game I ran. The JT had it's gun damaged after a few shots from a Sherman. My use of it thereafter was somewhat different though. It protected my other troops by acting target for all Allied heavies, as my Marders and other more vulnerable assets sneaked into positions... The JT depleted all AP and some HE ammo of two Shermans and a couple of other tanks, before it was finally knocked out by a CS Cromwell (IIRC) that finally used a HC after scoring ten or more hits with HE. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther131 Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 Posted by Jarmo: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Maybe I'm just having hallucinations again, but I seem to remember the JagdTiger used to cost less than the King variant. But the prices were changed for some reason. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes i seem to remember that too. Cant remember why it was changed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted April 23, 2001 Share Posted April 23, 2001 I think the JT got a raise since the tungsten ammo had it's effect reduced, thereby increasing the effectiveness of the JT armour to the limit of impenetrable. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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