Spook Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 And just what exactly is this oddity, you are wondering? Well, it's a "mathematical" relation to help explain the behavior of "grognards" in their critique of CM and other various historical-based wargames. (And as I am a grognard in the worst sort of way, as I've related on earlier occasion, I can offer the following with a bit of authority.) It's actually quite straightforward in its formulation. I assume that all here are acquainted with the following function: y = 1 / x Well, this function can be re-termed to the following for grognard wargamers: x = the number of outstanding issues or unresolved complaints that the grogs will have with a wargame y = the number of NEW issues that grognards will throw in, with the expectation that the wargame can be revised to accomodate these next. One may now ask, doesn't that seem like a bit of an oddity? By example, what if a wargame had a large number of outstanding issues that grognards complained over? Why would that make the value "y" (the new issues thrown in") be a miniscule value? It's quite basic. If a wargame has a large number of issues or "flaws", then the grognard community will typically write off the game as a lost cause & move on, without concerning to request new features. But if the wargame has a small number of "issues", this means that the grogs have a high level of both enthusiasm and expectation that the game will later consider everything under the sun. Thus is the "Grognards' Asymptote". In the effort that the game designer expends to reduce the value "x" to zero, the value "y" goes right through the roof and shoots towards infinity. Thereby, the attempt to reduce "x" to zero merely converts the value "y" (the new items expected or demanded by the grogs) into an "irrational number." I suspect, Steve, that this may well be what it is starting to seem like to you. In catching things on this forum from "recon" to gun optics to 88 trajectories to mine dogs, you might think, "I am falling down an abysssssssss.........." And I've fed the situation too in that I have had my own odds-&-ends list of hoped-for features in CM someday. But I think it appropriate to pause a moment now and reflect on the outstanding accomplishment that CMBO has been so far to the wargame genre; not only that, but also the extensive effort in the upgrades to get CMBO to v1.05 and soon to TCP/IP. Finally, it does get cantankerous or moody on this forum, and some posters here can have a minimal level of civility (or even none at all). Having to post on this forum to keep abreast of the "issues" here must be a time hog to all of you BTS guys, but you offer your opinions with candor and solid rationale, and at minimum "spin" level. That's damn hard to find in other game forums. I will wind down with the following example of how CM gameplay is profound to this grog: I had finally fired up the scenario "Fear in the Fog". I won't reveal spoiler details other than the "fear" & "fog" aspects were appropriately titled. With my troops unable to see far into the dense fog, I was starting to dread what seemed to waiting only a short distance away. The anticipation, the efforts made for good timing in movement, the second-guessing; all of this has rarely been rivaled (if at all) by any of the tabletop, miniature, or other computer wargames I have played for over 26 years. It reminds me on how much CM is a watershed product in the way that other wargames like the Squad Leader game was in the 1970's. OK, this is starting to get boring to many of you, I suppose. You may now proceed to the Peng cesspool thread to watch how some people's "remarkable" wit & ribaldry is eclipsed by their epic inability to get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 LOL! Good one! Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason why, our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spook: It's actually quite straightforward in its formulation. I assume that all here are acquainted with the following function: y = 1 / x x = the number of outstanding issues or unresolved complaints that the grogs will have with a wargame y = the number of NEW issues that grognards will throw in, with the expectation that the wargame can be revised to accomodate these next.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Very good, B+, but it's much more mathematically correct to say that y is inversely proportion to x. Once that is stated, the formula correctly becomes y = c/x where c is a constant which can be determined by studying the relationship between the two variables y and x. The good thing about a constant is that you can give it any title. Any suggestions welcomed (the "B*ll**** factor" comes to mind)! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>OK, this is starting to get boring to many of you, I suppose. You may now proceed to the Peng cesspool thread to watch how some people's "remarkable" wit & ribaldry is eclipsed by their epic inability to get a life. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No I enjoyed it! I look forward to your treatise on Quantum Mechanical interactions between cesspool matter and the causual impact these have on cesspoolean occupants and their ability to process CMBO PBEM turns! Now excuse me, I have a life to get! Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapdragon Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 What I want to know is why BTS is ignoring the effect of flatulance on fire power ratings of infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 It's almost as fun discussing a game as it is playing it. The game (and it's a good one) is merely a means of bringing a bunch of folks with similar interests into a forum to yak about WWII. I like to bitch with the best of um…but ultimately my only desire for change at this point is having TCP capability. And hay BTS is working on it and keeping its fans (clients) well informed as to the status of TCP. What more can you ask for? Well CM2…I could ask for that. OK two things…the ambush reticule showing up to your opponent in pbem play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 I have developed the economic theory of CM. It's pretty complicated. A=(53+S-I-L+C+E)2 It refers to the Actual cost of CM being $53 (for US residents), plus the savings from not doing anything on Saturday night, minus Interest in dating or Interest in your family, plus the cost of getting a new Computer to run CM, plus the cost of Electricity. The whole thing is squared, because so is the fun level of CM. ------------------ No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 10, 2000 Author Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: What I want to know is why BTS is ignoring the effect of flatulance on fire power ratings of infantry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, Slapdragon, I think that flatulance has greater effect on "infantry sound contacts". Heck, that's probably what accounts for half of the sound contacts in CM already. Now all we gotta do is generate the sound file to match with it. Also, I'm still debating the morale effect of flatulance as it occurs within a unit. Should the unit be "shaken" or in "panic"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: What I want to know is why BTS is ignoring the effect of flatulance on fire power ratings of infantry.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I heartily agree! Spook, I believe you forgot the equally morale shattering effect of the odor on the enemy thereby nullifying any effect on the emitters of said flatulence ------------------ Nicht Schiessen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Splinty: Spook, I believe you forgot the equally morale shattering effect of the odor on the enemy thereby nullifying any effect on the emitters of said flatulence <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Isn't the amount of flatulence emitted proportional to the fear experienced by the emitter? Eg, Allied troops, without anti-tank weaponry, walking around a corner to come face to face with a JagdTiger would be prone to emit vast quantities of flatulance (along with ....errr.... other body matter)! Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 10, 2000 Author Share Posted November 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mace: Isn't the amount of flatulence emitted proportional to the fear experienced by the emitter? Eg, Allied troops, without anti-tank weaponry, walking around a corner to come face to face with a JagdTiger would be prone to emit vast quantities of flatulance (along with ....errr.... other body matter)! Mace<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, "piss in your pants" would more likely happen first instead. Well, Slapdragon is to be duly cited. He has created the "fart grog" community (which may prove a cesspool in its own right---ack! gag!). OK, fart grogs, here's something for the future CM PanzerKrieg manual: "Panzer troops!!! Under no circumstances are you to light cigarettes in an enclosed tank compartment after consuming a type-B (beans) ration!!!" [This message has been edited by Spook (edited 11-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted November 10, 2000 Share Posted November 10, 2000 Indeed! The numbers of casualties caused by untimely farting will probably never be known. The gas inflicted by the American K-ration meal,Ham & Lima Beans may have killed dozens of unwitting American soldiers hence the nickname Ham & M^%$#@F*&^^%'s applied by soldiers in the VietNam conflict. ------------------ Nicht Schiessen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted November 11, 2000 Author Share Posted November 11, 2000 Regarding Mace's earlier comments: Very good, B+, but it's much more mathematically correct to say that y is inversely proportion to x. Once that is stated, the formula correctly becomes y = c/x where c is a constant which can be determined by studying the relationship between the two variables y and x. The good thing about a constant is that you can give it any title. Any suggestions welcomed (the "B*ll**** factor" comes to mind)! Oops. Even in calculus class, I always forgot the constant! Of course, the working presumption to apply a "constant" is that there is something "constant" regarding the behavior or attitude of a grognard (other than complaining). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest barrold713 Posted November 11, 2000 Share Posted November 11, 2000 It is threads like this that are the gravy to the sumptuous meal that is CM. Hmmmn...that reminds me that I have not had dinner yet. The creative ways that the fertile minds in this forum come up to compliment the work of the swell eggs (another food reference...da*n I'm hungry, when will my wife get home so I can serve the dinner I made!) at BTS always brings a smile to my face. The formula constructed above is a great way to humorously calculate the enormous interest in making improvements in an already great game. Kudos BDH ------------------ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb discussing what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote" - Ben Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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