General Gavin 82nd AB Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 I have read War of the Rats and enjoyed it. I have heard much about Enemy at the Gates but never read it. I wondered if anyone who read both might be able to compare the two. For those interested, I believe that the movie version of "Enemy" is due out Dec 22,2000. There are some good posts on it in the search files. ------------------ Give me hamsters or give me night! [This message has been edited by General Gavin 82nd AB (edited 09-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armdchair Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 I haven't read "War of the Rats" so I can't make a comparison, but "Enemy at the Gates" is outstanding. Great mix of historical narrative and oral history. The story of the Soviet sniper Zaitsev and his German opponent Major Koenings's duel is in there, as well as other memorable accounts (see Soviet Capt. Ignacy Changar's account of a week-long battle for a corridor). I'm terrified Hollywood will screw this up- as they have with every war movie, including "Saving Private Ryan". War is not about the value of the individual but rather the reverse: twice in th 20th century, world wars wiped out some of the best people in their generation. To seize on exceptions (as Hollywood does) is to ignore the heroic sacrifice and horrifying cost of war: the Soviets lost 750,000 at Stalingrad alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager 7 Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 Gen. Gavin, I gave up on War of the Rats but highly recommend Enemy at the Gates. War of the Rats is a novel and Enemy is oral history at it's best. Great book! Out here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 I've just finished "War of the Rats." It deals with the super snipers of the Red Army, Comrade Zaitsev, and the SS sniper, Col. Thorvald. It was a great break from all the "dry" history books I've been reading lately, meaning Rats is narrative-historical. It gave a good account of the mindset of Soviet soldiers, views we rarely see and hear about in the West. Can't help you with Enemy yet... it's still on my shelf. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von shrad Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 Well Dr. Brian, pull it off the shelf and break it open because it is one of the best books I have ever read. Craig interviews people from both sides from the highest ranking to the common soldier, to the poor civilians trapped in the cauldron. I think you will enjoy it because it conveys a very human side not seen in a lot of books on the subject. VS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 'War of the Rats' is, in a word, awful, particularily if one knows anything about the Second World War, mainly because the author doesn't. It's poorly written, about cardboard characters and the author knows less than me about sniping (and that's saying something)... By way of example, the German sniper changes his rifle *twice*! Yes that's right, he replaces his rifle *twice* and the second time with a captured Soviet rifle, for *absolutely no reason*. Avoid this book like the plague (oh did I mention that much of the book is written in the form of metaphors are, really, really awful?). Avoid, avoid, unless you considering having sex after crawling through a sewer and being covered in feces plausible behaviour. Cheers, Walter R. Strapps Oh, and here's my edit 1) a sniper does not switch to another weapon that he's *never fired before* when going up against another master sniper 2) I'm pretty sure that the author was blowing smoke because everything I've read says that the Soviet rifle was inferior. [This message has been edited by Walter (edited 09-04-2000).] [This message has been edited by Walter (edited 09-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 Read war of the rats, it is excellent. It is wonderfully descriptive. BTW the German SS colonel replaces his rifle because the Russian one is better then the German one. It is explained in the book. Trust me it is a great book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 Both are good reads. "War of the Rats" does have some inaccuracies, but nothing that made me want to hurl it at a wall. Overall it seems to do a good job of capturing the psychology of the participants well, which IMO is generally more important than technical accuracy in a novel. "Enemy at the Gates" is an excellent combination of small scale anecdote and large scale perspectives. Highly recommended. I'd suggest reading "Enemy" first, then "Rats". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted September 5, 2000 Share Posted September 5, 2000 Great guys, just great!! If you continue like this I'll be Amazon.com's "customer of the month" in no time. thanks. ------------------ visit lindan.panzershark.com member of the Combat Mission webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 Walter wrote: Oh, and here's my edit 1) a sniper does not switch to another weapon that he's *never fired before* when going up against another master sniper I agree. Though, he may take an enemy weapon and test it to see whether it is better than his own or not. This could happen relatively often, at least when both armies used interchangable ammo. For example, the Finnish master sniper Simo Häyhä sometimes used captured Soviet sniping rifles to test them. This didn't happen very often since he preferred to fire from open sights because that way he could keep his head lower. BTW, Häyhä had one sniper duel with a Soviet sniper. The name of his opponent is not known (at least, not here in Finland) but he was pretty good. After the Soviet sniper had killed three Finnish officers in two days (IIRC), Captain Aarne "The Terror of Morocco" Juutilainen ordered Häyhä to get the sniper. Häyhä spent a whole day lying in the snow and trying to find the sniper but without success. Finally, when the Sun was going down, its light reflected on the telescope sight of the Soviet sniper who had decided to leave his position. Häyhä shot a quick shot at the glint and killed the sniper. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager 7 Posted September 6, 2000 Share Posted September 6, 2000 A couple months back someone on this forum suggested "In Deadly Combat - The Memoirs of a German Soldier on the Eastern Front", by G.H. Bidermann Well, I went to Amazon, got the book and just finished reading it. Wonderful book which I strongly suggest to anyone so interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts