Chief Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 A random thought on Tiger crews that perhaps the grogs could weigh in on. I can easily understand why most German AFV crews could range in quality from lousy to great, but I had the impression that Tiger crews tended to be picked men with previous experience. True or false? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 In that case they would be 'Veteran' rather than 'Regular'. It's not an ideal system. I would like a Regular Panther to have a different kind of crew to a Regular Tiger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 Tigers were only assigned to "elite" units. That's as in elite division or regiment. But even the elite units had to get less than perfect reinforcements, so a single crew might be something between regular and elite. Probably no green or conscript Tiger crews, though. I'd guess most Tiger crews would be "Veterans". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dNorwood Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Tigers were only assigned to "elite" units. That's as in elite division or regiment. Probably no green or conscript Tiger crews, though. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> SPOILER --- SPOILER --- SPOILER --- SPOILER = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = In WBW's "Far from over" scenario, there are several Green tiger crews, reflecting the fact that in that fight, some of the crews were fresh out of "tiger school" and had no battle experience. But note that this battle took place late in the war (after the crossing of the Main, I think) when Germany was in "doing the best it could with what it had" mode. (THis is an excellent scenario, by the way - but if you're reading this, you probably already know that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 If you feel that Tiger crews should be veteran-elite then just make them as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 A few references come to mind: Feist & Culver in Tiger I state that "The first Tiger crews came from existing Panzer Division crews" (p.49-50) which Otto Carius relates (p.15) in his excellent memoir, Tigers in the Mud, "Not until I reported to headquarters did I discover that officers with front line experience and a few companies from the Eastern Front were supposed to be trained there on a new type of tank, the 'Tiger'." Feist & Culver then continue that "Most of the later recruits for duty in the Tiger tank battalions were young volunteers straight from basic training." More experienced personnel (many recovering from wounds) were also included, and that due to the different training given the Tiger crews, "the high proportion of inexperienced recruits was not seen as a disadvantage." Showing the continued change over the course of the war, Michael Green in Tiger Tanks (p.49) quotes Lt. Col. Bill Hamberg (US Army), commander of a 5th Armored Division tank battalion, that "As the war was nearing its end, I noticed that the accuracy of German tank firing steadily decreased. On a number of occasions when my tanks presented easy targets to Tiger tanks, they were unable to hit our vehicles. It was obvious to me that the Germans no longer had the time to train their tank crews in the basic fundamentals of tank gunnery." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 30, 2000 Share Posted December 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Major Tom: If you feel that Tiger crews should be veteran-elite then just make them as such.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not complaining. Just pointing out something I believe is historically correct. I'm all for the freedom of scenario design. But yeah, there probably were also green crews later in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AbnAirCav: Feist & Culver then continue that "Most of the later recruits for duty in the Tiger tank battalions were young volunteers straight from basic training." More experienced personnel (many recovering from wounds) were also included, and that due to the different training given the Tiger crews, "the high proportion of inexperienced recruits was not seen as a disadvantage."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In case it wasn't clear, these recruits were (as was Otto Carius) assigned to the "Heavy Tank Replacement and Training Battalion 500", the special Tiger training establishment set up at the tank school at Paderborn which supplied trained crews for both new and existing Tiger units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Posted December 31, 2000 Author Share Posted December 31, 2000 Thanks, folks. This is good info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AbnAirCav Posted December 31, 2000 Share Posted December 31, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo: Tigers were only assigned to "elite" units. That's as in elite division or regiment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> My understanding of the employment of Tiger tanks, in broad terms, is that there were basically ten Army heavy tank battalions, three SS heavy tank battalions, and the Grossdeutschland Panzer Grenadier Division's battalion. The Tiger battalions were more corps-level formations and the Tigers were then more or less assigned where needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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