Panzer Strike

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Combat mission was not the first game to use the "give orders/simultaneous execution" system. I don't know if it has been discussed in threads long past, but Gary Grigsby's "Panzer Strike" was the first to use this system. I was wondering if the developers at Big Time developed this system independently or drew from Grigsby's previous endeavors? Grigsby also used detailed armor penetration algorithms and velocity/diameter calcs for the projectiles.

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"Reality is created by the participation of the participants."- John Wheeler

[Mace]

And SPI, maker of some fine board wargames, used a system back in the 70s where both players plotted movement through hexes, and actions, on a pad before they were executed.

some of their titles that come to mind include Panzer'44, Sniper and Patrol!

Mace

[This message has been edited by Mace (edited 11-18-2000).]

[Chupacabra]

TacOps is a wego game as well. I don't think BTS ever claimed to have come up with the idea, but CM is the first 3d wego wargame, AFAIK.

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Grand Poobah of the fresh fire of Heh.

[LuckyStrike]

There was another Mac game some 10 years ago named 'Robosport' that used virtually the exact same method as CM. The idea was to command a team of little robots armed with various weapons in a kind of arena, vs another team. Each robot had a certain number of actions it could do, you gave your whole team orders, as did the AI or the other human player on a connected Mac. The turn was then resolved, and a 'video' generated which ran for about 30 seconds, which you could fast forward, rewind etc. Exactly same as CM, though of course no TacAI etc, if one of your guys walked into someone's guns he just stood there and took it and got blown to pieces.

[chrisl]

There have been plenty of WEGO games for the non-computer world-- here's a few more examples:

Diplomacy - 7 players, simultaneous movement. 1959 or so for the first version

Ace of Aces- a clever little game of WWI air combat. Each player had a book with 225? pages, each containing a view out of the cockpit. Players always ended up on the same page number, and if one of the planes was firing, the other took a number of hit points. IIRC, page 20 was close range, face to face. There were several versions, which were compatible with each other despite different aircraft capabilities. Multiplayer was possible (all you needed was one bookmark per opponent) and tournaments at conventions were cool-- you got a name tag and carried around your books. If, while wandering around, someone saw your tag they could challenge you and you had to fight them.

Lost World(?) - another book-based game, but involving hand-to-hand combat between magical creatures. I think it may have been the same publisher as Ace of Aces.

Wooden Ships and Iron Men (around 1976)-- simultaneous movement in ship-to-ship combat in the age of sail.

I read an article in the general about 100 years ago for WEGO rules for Richtofen's War.

BTS didn't invent WEGO, by any means, nor do they claim to, but they applied it extremely effectively in a WWII squad level game, combined with 3D.

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Slayer of the Original Cesspool Thread.

[This message has been edited by chrisl (edited 11-18-2000).]

[Old Dog]

And among non-computer games lets not forget Yaquinto's Panzer, 88, and Armor by John Day. Tactical WWII combat on geomorphic maps with moveable and stackable hill and tree terrain pieces that gave the map a 3-D look. Plotted movement with simultaneous resolution that included opportunity fire, and extremely detailed armor and gun penetration ratings for a wide variety of AFVs.

So...

Tactical WWII, check

Random 3-D maps, check

Detailed data on AFVs, check

Points purchase system, check

Simutaneous - Wego - system, check

Yep! Sounds pretty close to me. Loved it and love CM. Ain't wargamin' grand!

- Old Dog

[Von Brizee]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuckyStrike:

There was another Mac game some 10 years ago named 'Robosport' that used virtually the exact same method as CM. The idea was to command a team of little robots armed with various weapons in a kind of arena, vs another team. Each robot had a certain number of actions it could do, you gave your whole team orders, as did the AI or the other human player on a connected Mac. The turn was then resolved, and a 'video' generated which ran for about 30 seconds, which you could fast forward, rewind etc. Exactly same as CM, though of course no TacAI etc, if one of your guys walked into someone's guns he just stood there and took it and got blown to pieces.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I played that game! I was only about 6 or 7 when I played it, but I remember cheering my little guys on in the movie and mashing the keyboard when something started to go wrong, even though there was nothing I could do to stop it. Always replayed the movies where lots of guys died!

[Guest Andrew Hedges]

Ace of Aces was cool.

Starfleet Battles, from the late 70's also had a type of simultaneous movement -- you plotted your moves ahead of time and then resolved them at the same time. AFAIK, though, most players never used the simultaneous movement rules and just moved in alternating turns.

SF Battles went through a lot of iterations, and they may have eventually discarded simultaneous movement, as they later added stuff like fighters, which would probably have made things difficult. But in the original $4.95 package it was present.