Guest Scott Clinton Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I have noticed that tank commanders seem to be very vulnerable to enemy fire at what I consider long range. Perhaps I have just had bad luck keeping my tanks unbuttoned or perhaps my perception of 'long range' is incorrect. But, let me make my case if I may: Firstly, the graphic representation of the tank commander sitting upright, with about 50% of his body exposed for the enemy to shoot at is just a graphical representation. This has been noted by BTS on at least two occasions that I recall. In reality (from what I have read) a tank commander would be foolhardy to expose themselves this much and instead would have just the bare minimum of their body exposed to enemy fire (i.e. head and shoulders at most). With that in mind, I have seen way too many (IMO, of course) first burst hits on tank commanders at ranges of 200, 300 and even 400m. I would think hitting a target the size of a basketball (i.e. a mans head) at a range of 200m would be tough to do with the first burst, let alone at a range of 400m or more (as I have seen). Also, a majority of these hits seem to be caused by other vehicle top mounted MGs. Thus, I am seeing not only (what I consider to be) unlikely first burst hits at long range, but these hits are being caused by top mounted MGs being fired by (most of the time) vehicles on the move (i.e. bouncing over uneven terrain). Now, I don't know if this means that the tank commanders are not being granted enough cover or if MGs mounted on the top of vehicles are being rated as too accurate (especially on the move), or perhaps a little of both. And before anyone asks for 'hard data', don't. Sorry, but I don't have any 'hard data' for the firing of top mounted MGs at people's heads at ranges in excess of 200m. Does anybody else think that hits on tank commanders seem to happen too often at long range? ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 The only time I've seen increased vulnerability is with Crack and Elite tanks, as the TCs are much too brave, which I guess is to be expected. It seems that you have just been having poor luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I don't see this happening too often. Esp. at longer ranges. Are you sure your not losing some to sniper fire?? I generally keep my TCs exposed longer than I probably should. When they get whacked, I take the blame... ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>- Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Live and Learn, Die and forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Well, what I have seen is not sniper fire nor are these Veterans or Elite troops. And for the record I seem to be able to do it to the AI about as often as the AI does it to me... The more I think about it the more I think it is an issue with AA top mounted vehicle MGs being too accurate and not a 'cover issue'. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 One thing I've oftened heard about the Israeli army was that they lost a tremendous number of TCs because of the risks they took. I've heard they used "Kentucky windage" to engage their enemies with great effect.. ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 One thing to consider, is that shooting at a TC isn't the same as shooting at a soldier. If you miss a soldier your bullets go thudding harmlessly into the ground (or shooting off into the distance and killing someone else). If you miss a TC, there's a lot of metal around him which will cause ricochets, thus amplifying the chance he'll be hit. If I were a TC with even just my head sticking out of the turret, I'd be very conscious that near misses could be as fatal (if not moreso) than direct hits. David P.S. I'd also expect AA MGs to be more effective against TCs, because of their higher elevation. Misses could bounce off the turret top and into the TC's face, rather than missing completely. ------------------ There's a splinter in your eye, and it reads REACT [This message has been edited by David Aitken (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Scott, Though I'm sure it may feel like it at times, I, and others, don't see this increased vulnerability you describe or amazing accuracy of the MGs on the tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 I think the answer is contained in both Davids and Elijahs posts. As David said, it *is* dangerous to have your head sticking out of a hole in the tank while someone fires a machine gun at you. The tank itself provides a nice reference target, and remember that the casualty is abstract, so you cannot actually know what happened. The commander could be hit with a ricochet, or any number of unpleansant things. And Elijah also has a good point. I do not think it happens THAT often. Certainly I do not worry about it unless there are infantry within 100m or so, which I try to avoid anyway. I think you are much, much more likely to remember and note the few times it does happen, and forget about the many, many times it does not. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Scott, Though I'm sure it may feel like it at times, I, and others, don't see this increased vulnerability you describe or amazing accuracy of the MGs on the tanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've lost several TCs in "A Day in the Cavalry" to unknowns. I never say any indication of incomming fire and one of the tanks was actually well to the rear of the main battle line. I assumed it was sniper fire. Would there be an indication, visual or sound, if it was? Cav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 Thanks guys! I guess I have just had a run of crappy luck. The last three TCs I lost to 'first burst fire' were at (IIRCC) 200m, 330m and 450m range. All from AA mounted .50cals and all but one was fired while the both vehicles were moving. Talk about bad luck. Thanks again. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 The British lost a lot of TC because of the relative close ranges in France when compared to Africa. Yes, I know that many of these kills occured at long range in CM, but, these ranges are relatively short when you consider those common in North Africa. What is being used to kill these TC's? Artillery, long range infantry/hmg fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted August 25, 2000 Share Posted August 25, 2000 CavScout, If you don't know the enemy is there, the only indication you will get, IIRC, is the sound of gunfire. No targeting line, no tracer. ----- You wouldn't know the dust of Thermopylae if it came up to you, handed you a business card reading "Dust of Thermopylae, 480 B.C.E.", then kicked you in the shins. -Hakko Ichiu [This message has been edited by Elijah Meeks (edited 08-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts