2 bugs when playing an Operation! plz read BTS

[Silencer]

ok.

operation Villers-Bocage:

1.

First one, have been able to reproduce.

when a tank is knocked out, (in my case an allied cromwell)in the first battle,

when you shoot at them in the 2e (or 3e) battle (to get an explosion or for fun), the crews will bail out again!!!!

happens every time with every tank.

1.1

Once a tank is Knocked out, you can't target them again in the same battle, but the battle thereafter, you can again, and with the crews bailing out again.

2.

In the second battle, again, i shot up an abandonned tank from a previous battle, and as expected the crew bailed out again, but this time they kept coming. every 3 seconds new crews bailed (with the hatch sound being played again and again).

After 4 turns it stopped, but there where lying over 50 dead crew bodies from the tank till the nearest house,

not to speak over all the survived crews that scattered.

I have taken screenshots of it, but i dont know how to paste them here. I also have the save-files.

I also wanted to adress that the lack of the better German Optics where not taken in consideration. As discussed before, most engagements where taken under 1km, where it wasn't that important, but for example in Villers-Bocage, the main long road was over 2.2 km long, and I had several duals with a distance over the 2km.

At this distance the allied optics was pretty much useless, but the optics of the germans still worked pretty good (zooming and distance regulation by the triangles).

So I ask BTS to plz include the better optics as it was a DECISIVE factor on ranges +1000m.

regards,

Silencer

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[TeAcH]

Nice bug find and well said! I agree with the optics benefit for the Germans, or lack thereof.

TeAcH

[Guest Scott Clinton]

(ed lots of stuff...)

As a suggetion: If you want to add an optics-like edge in a scenario you are making try 'upping' the German tank crews exper. by a notch (exampe: if you want them to be vets, instead make them crack). This will allow them to get on target faster and be more accurate, both supposed advantages of better optics. I personally think that would be overkill. But it may be what you are looking for.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 07-09-2000).]

[Echo]

I can vouch for the German optics advantage.

My pbem opponent just handed me my ass when I attemted to engage his armor with 2 platoons of Sherman from a distance over 3km. I think the best hit probability I got was 3%.

[Silencer]

Scott, yes, cranking up the experience does help for great distances, but sooner or later they will also fight under the 500m, so that doesn't work well.

As a sidenote, a see the BTS even included Gyro's in some Shermans, even though they where allmost never used in combat due to be unreliable (and had to be recalibrated every time). But for the realism they where included, which is good. OTOH Zeis optics wern't included, which was far more important IMHO.

If it's too much of coding to include in a patch, leave it that way. I can only hope that the Optics are included in CM2, where armoured engagements often happend at 1000+.

(and the terrible Russian optics)

as to the bugs, here are the piccies:

enjoy

http://www.geocities.com/peter1_haex/

S.

[Sten]

As Echo says, german optics already are taken into consideration.

The tank-crew bug is taken care of in v 1.03.

You can always target ENEMY tanks, knocked out or not, even in the same batlle. Sure you weren't trying to target a knocked out friendly tank?

Sten

[Silencer]

hmmm,

"You can always target ENEMY tanks, knocked out or not, even in the same battle. Sure you weren't trying to target a knocked out friendly tank?"

--> well, just knocked out tanks you still can retarged. But (now, i'll have to recheck this evening to be absolutely sure) burning tanks you can't in the same battle.

for example; an abandoned tank. you target your tank to destroy it. your tank will continue to shoot at it UNTILL it explodes or burns. (even when the msg says knocked out, they will continue to shoot).

When the tank burns and you want to target it again (just to test), you can't select the tank anymore. (but i'll have to recheck it this evening)

" Optics taken in consideration"

--> for CM or CM2?

S.

[Sten]

The German optics are in, now, in CM, they will be there for CM2 as well, but the optics in a specific AFV is presently simulated.

Clearer?

When I target a knocked out enemy tank it is because I want it to burn, generating smoke. Why would you want to target an already burning tank?

Sten

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Keep your whisky on the rocks and your tanks on the roll.

[Kingfish]

In an operation, the number one reason to continue to blast KO'd tanks until they brew up is to prevent the enemy from recovering them for use in future battles.

If the tank is already burning, then all you're doing is wasting valuable ammo.

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The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive

[Guest Scott Clinton]

Reminds me of a 'bug' IMO.

When I target an "ABANDONED" tank my gun keep firing even after it is "KNOCKED OUT" until the enemy tank bursts into flame.

IMHO, if I (my crew) can tell that the enemy tank is indeed "KNOCKED OUT" and no longer just "ABANDONED" then they should stop firing.

Not a big issue sometimes, but if you are running low on AP ammo it could be huge.

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[paullus]

Actually, the whole point of targeting an abandoned or knocked out tank is to get it to burn. Even if a tank is knocked out (i.e. no burning), it can still be recovered.

[Guest Scott Clinton]

I thought KOed tanks were DEAD for good. Are you sure? (Note for self: read manual... )

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[Kingfish]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton:

I thought KOed tanks were DEAD for good. Are you sure? (Note for self: read manual... )

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it's in the manual. In fact it made mention that it was a standard tactic for The Germans to brew up KO'd allied vehicles, due to the fact that the allies had excellent repair and recovery capabilities.

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The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive

[Silencer]

Sten,

"Why would you want to target an already burning tank?,"

I don't, was just observation.

Paulus: you can never recover a Knocked out tank. (abondonned yes)

depends on the senario I guess.

In the Villers-Bocage senario.

I had 2 tanks that where immobelised on my part of the map, way back actually. During the 2 and the 3 battle they where abandoned.

I think there has to be some time between 2 battles to recover vehicles, like a night or half a day....

S.

[Guest Scott Clinton]

Okay...

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Knocked Out - a vehicle which has suffered major internal damage, and is now combat-useless, forcing the crew to bail out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no mention of 'burning tanks' at all that I can find. Abandoned vehicles can, of course be re-crewed (if you are lucky) in an operation.

Furthermore I suspect that the ONLY reason units stop targeting BURNING tanks is because they can no longer trace LOS to the center of the unit due to the smoke and fire.

So...its a BUG IMHO. Why would my crews continue to pump valuable ammo (thier lives my depend on it later) into a tank that THEY have identifed as already "KNOCKED OUT"?

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.