ntg84 Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 By 1944 on the wester front didn't most German soldiers have a cammo smock uniform? Not just SS but Wermacht had them too in the West. Am I wrong for asuming this becasue I see tons of pictures of Wermacht in the West wearing cammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 From my knowledge of the war, it would be highly unlikely for regular German infantry to get camouflage uniforms. They were lucky to have uniforms at all, considering the shortage of just about everything in the latter years of the war. The query I would have about German uniforms in CM is about the grey colour. It is a popular misconception that German uniforms were grey-blue - I gather they were in fact grey-green. I don't know on what basis the decision was made to portray them as plain grey in CM, but if it is historically accurate, it would probably be due to either weathering of uniforms, or a shortage of anything but grey fabric. Can anyone clarify? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 23, 2000 Share Posted July 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ntg84: By 1944 on the wester front didn't most German soldiers have a cammo smock uniform? Not just SS but Wermacht had them too in the West. Am I wrong for asuming this becasue I see tons of pictures of Wermacht in the West wearing cammo<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The German's did produce large quantaties of camouflage garments, of various schemes,and reversible schemes (a garmet that reversed for winter or summer/fall scheme) under contract for both the Werhmacht & Waffen SS that did find their way into wide spread use among the Wehrmacht. But their realy was no stanard camouflage uniform 'issued' to Werhmacht troops. The only camoflaged piece realy issued to Werhmacht, troops was Zeltbahn 31, an splinter patterened, tent/poncho, that many troops wore as an camouflage garment throughout the war. Basicly it came down to what they could scrounge hence the photographic evidence of Werhmacht platoons in mixed attire, with some wearing camo smocks, helmet covers and others in normal feild grey dress. Regards,John Waters [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 07-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 Many certainly did but I've personally seen more photos showing the standard M1942/43 field grey tunic at the front. Splinter pattern camo smocks were only usually issued to panzergrenadiers and snipers (in the Heer) who, being more glamorous though less numerous than other troops, figure in photos more often than not. You also begin to see the cut-down waist length M1944 field blouse modelled on British battledress. A lesser known regulation was that panzergrenadiers mounted in armoured halftracks were supposed to wear a field grey version of the panzer uniform (M1940 special field grey uniform). In practice issue was limited. Panzer Lehr Division had the uniform issued to both PG regts in Normandy (both fully mounted in halftracks) and they are often confused with SP gun crew in photo captions. Most widely used army camo items were probably the Zeltbahn tent-quarter worn poncho-style and the splinter pattern helmet cover; both would probably look pretty cool in CM. I may be wrong but I think there's only one texture slot for all German infantry headwear in the game so that would mean splinter camo for all. I'm currently working on some camo texture mods along these lines. A good, concise, handbook on this topic is 'The German Army (5); Western Front 1943-45' by N. Thomas in the Osprey Men-At-Arms series (No.336). Cheers, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted July 24, 2000 Author Share Posted July 24, 2000 I was thinking the pea pod pattern was pretty prevailent (am I spelling that right?) in the West for Wermacht. Thanks for the clairification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ntg84: I was thinking the pea pod pattern was pretty prevailent (am I spelling that right?) in the West for Wermacht. Thanks for the clairification.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The common Wermacht pattern was the 'Splittermuster' or splinter pattern. The Luftwaffe based their splinter pattern on it as well, you can see it on Fallschirmjaeger' jump smocks etc. The 'Plane tree', 'Palm tree' & 'Oakleaf' pattern's were Waffen SS scheme's. Regards, John Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 I have seen downloads for Allied winter camo, but I have not seen any for German winter camo. I am positive that the SS and the FJ wore winter camo. During the bulge Wermacht troops made their own, out of sheets and tablecloths, and some were issued. I have seen pictures of German winter camo on CMHQ, but cannot find where to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: The query I would have about German uniforms in CM is about the grey colour. It is a popular misconception that German uniforms were grey-blue - I gather they were in fact grey-green. I don't know on what basis the decision was made to portray them as plain grey in CM, but if it is historically accurate, it would probably be due to either weathering of uniforms, or a shortage of anything but grey fabric. Can anyone clarify? David<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The "green-grey" you refer to is commonly labeled as "field grey", David. And on a similar note, I too made a query, several months ago, as to why this type of uniform color isn't used in CM. The assertion of Steve Grammont (BTS) is that field grey was not so common in 1944-45, and that expediencies were applied both for uniform fabric and for dyes. He acknowledged that field-grey uniforms were likely available for SOME German troops during that time, but not for most of them. I would prefer the field-grey color, but will defer to historical trends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 Have you guys looks at Steve's "Page O' Camo"? It's on this site under resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 24, 2000 Share Posted July 24, 2000 Bit mystified as to what other shades of grey were available besides 'feldgrau'? Granted, local variations in dye always occur, plus action of the elements etc. but in all the sources I've read the term 'field grey' is always used. That Osprey 336 book I mentioned earlier describes the standard colour as 'greenish-grey' but also mentions that the short-jacket M1944 uniform was in 'feldgrau 44' - a browner green-grey than previously used - but still field grey nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted July 25, 2000 Author Share Posted July 25, 2000 But early war wasn't it the Grey-Green (my Polly-S Field grey?) More green than grey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrD Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I hope that in future versions the prescence/abscence of appropriate camo has an effect on spotting. I seem to recall that the Germans had an edge in the Bulge due to the fact that they were mostly camo'ed while the Amis weren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I wanna find this Winter Camo to download!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 IIRC, american winter camo is now avalible on Madmatt's 3rd party mod section. I believe the German winter camo that was seen is going to come out with Madmatt's mad dog pack 2. Lorak ------------------ "someone you trust is one of us"..........the illuminati * http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ntg84: But early war wasn't it the Grey-Green (my Polly-S Field grey?) More green than grey?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The original M36 service tunic was feild gray, but economic conditions in 1943 & 1944 caused the Germans to manufacture uniforms of lesser quality. Until 1943 German uniforms had been manufatured from wool with 5% rayon fibre. In 1943 due to wool shortages a new M43 tunic was produced that was as high as 65% rayon stable fiber. Also a cheaper dye was used, by the end of 1943 the uniforms were being made from the wool waste, which was already dyed, & the M43 tunics etc, appear even new as a shoddy weathered looking feild gray color. In 1944 the Germans began producing the M44 tunic which was basicly a copy of the British feild blouse, the M44 was more a slate grey green, then feild grey, again due to cheaper production methods. So basicly their was a subtle quality discenable color difernce from the M36 - M44 tunics, etc. Regards, John Waters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 Wouldn't it be a simple matter just to tint the uniform textures to the desired shade of OKW Requisition Number 3867351/43 Feldgrau? ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spook Posted July 25, 2000 Share Posted July 25, 2000 I don't know how easy I can approach the feldgrau "spec" with Photo Editor, but yeah, the "image balance" feature in MS Photo Editor can allow a green tint to be applied to the texture. The grey itself might first have to be brightened a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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