Guest MantaRay Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Ok, I know it isnt realistic, as we never fought each other, but am I alone where I wish that the US and Russia could face off after the defeat of Germany? Yes, I know that the US forces will not be modeled in CM2, but it wouldnt be like starting over from scratch in making them. And it would add even more PBEM/TCP/IP options and add even more to the replay value. Plus, Patton at the Gates of Moscow would be just damn cool. Anyone with me? Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." New CM Site. In process of switching. Brought to you by Hardcore Gamers Daily Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Nope that would just mess up the game. In erly years there were some British units but very few ------------------ Game master of Robs CMC Join or get more info on Rob's CMC today Email me at RobsCMC@hotmail.com Rob -------------------------- For more info on Rob's CMC go to Robs CMC HQHome of Robs CMC Members of my CMC should join my CMC chat bord. Robs CMC Board BHQS board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 How would it mess up the game? After the fall of Berlin we were in fact very close to going to war with them. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 That was just Patton! The Americans have already messed up CM1...no just kiding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Hmm, I wonder what BTS's stand is on hypothetical scenarios... It all probably comes down to the level of changes from CM1 to CM2. Possibly the models of CM1 will be totally incompatible with CM2 (maybe they have an entire new outlook?). I do agree that this would be an interesting twist. Actually, Churchill was on the Anti-Russian bandwagon as well. It would have been interesting if he wasn't voted out of office at the end of the war. Possibly he and Patton (and others) could have driven the Allies over the edge? [This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 12-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MantaRay: Ok, I know it isnt realistic, as we never fought each other, but am I alone where I wish that the US and Russia could face off after the defeat of Germany? Yes, I know that the US forces will not be modeled in CM2, but it wouldnt be like starting over from scratch in making them. And it would add even more PBEM/TCP/IP options and add even more to the replay value. Plus, Patton at the Gates of Moscow would be just damn cool. Anyone with me? Ray <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If your realy wont to do it mod Germans to look like americans! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Now what will that do Rob? I am talking about using American equipment (as in Shermans, Pershings and the like) and "modding" the uniforms will be just the same thing as playing with the Germans. So in the future when you reply.... #1 Use the spell checker (located on the right of the "SUBMIT REPLY" button.) #2 Move over one more and after you make a post, hit the "Clear Fields" button, then hit "Submit Reply." #3 I don't care if you disagree, but when you do, use a bit more logic in why you think it shouldn't be in. And yes, I know BTS will not put it in the game. But, I would love to think if enough people "wanted it in the game", that BTS may at least consider it. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mongo Lloyd Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Personally, I would enjoy the ability to create scenarios using any nationality against any nationality. They would have to change the code so that you have a side A and a side B and then put whatever troops you want on each side. I would like to play Americans vs. British and Germans vs. Germans as well. It might not be realistic but it would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 I would like to see any nationality vs. any other, simply because I hope the game engine will be much more flexible than the current engine. I would like to see the Romanians fighting the German, and the Soviets fighting the Romanians, and everyone fighting the Poles. Ideally, the scenario and operation design interface should allow a scenario designer plenty of rope to hang themselves with. Ensuring historical accuracy should be the responsibility of the designer, not of the software. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rob/1 Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 May I remind you what BTS has said"We wont to make the morst realistc game posable"in the manule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 I would love the chance to lead my comrads in arms to defeat the capitalist swine! I can just see the butchery... T-34's VS Shermans, M-26's VS JS3's, Guards VS Marines, Patton VS Zhukov - err, excuse me for a second - *wipes up drool* - now where were we? Ah yes, crushing the capitalists... Too bad BTS is probably against any "What if?" scenarios. Well, here's hoping anyway! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MantaRay: I wish that the US and Russia could face off <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Don't you mean the US and Soviet Union? ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rob/1: May I remind you what BTS has said"We wont to make the morst realistc game posable"in the manule.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Really, I thought they said that they want to make a more realistic game possible, instead they won't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Am I the only one unsettled by the concept of hypothetical wars? When you play CM, you are safe in the knowledge that you are re-enacting historical events. You can place your battle at a particular time and place (even if it is a fictional scenario). But the US going to war with Russia, or – oh dear – Britain? As someone who takes great interest in the Second World War, and appreciates CM more as a historical simulation than a game, the idea of this makes my heart sink. In my opinion, this would be to trivialise the war (or any other), and the incomprehensible impact it had on the world. I know it's just a game, but to me it would be morally wrong to simulate conflicts which never happened, using historically accurate men and equipment from real countries. What is important is not the power of a given tank, or the strength of a given soldier. What matters is what really happened. I think anybody who suffered during the Second World War would be shocked at the suggestion of "Patton at the Gates of Moscow". You're talking about pretending to prolong the war, and go ahead and kill thousands more people and wreak even more destruction. To detach CM from its grounds of historical credibility would be to turn a simulator into an exercise in offensiveness and bad taste. Sorry for the rant, but the idea worries me. David New map! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 David, Although I do not agree with you, I can see where you are coming from with the morals of this issue. However, I think that if BTS provided an option for mixing and matching nationalities, and did not include any such scenarios in the game itself, the option would be there but would not be forced upon the player. Keep in mind that such scenarios can already be accomplished in CM1. It would not be realistic if I changed the Germans to look like the Soviets using CM's modding capability, but I could if I wanted to. Besides, there's lots of silly mods out there that no one is getting offended by. Like Kitty's light-hearted Hamster mod, for example. I think its funny, but if you find it offensive, simply don't use it! You see where Im going with this? It's all about freedome of choice, IMHO. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Well to me hypothetical scens or camps are ok & I believe from the ammount of traffic these USSR vs Allies threads generate on the Nwsgrps & military discussion boards prolly a lotta ppl would like to play them. Their was a small possibility of a conflict between the USSR & Westren allies Ie, had the West broken its agreements and marched on Berlin, or had patton pushed farher then he did. Had that occured it's generaly believed the USSR would have attacked to restore the agreed upon boundries. Stalin not trusting the West kept 2 complete fully equipped & manned Guards Tank Armies secretly out of the 1945 battles just in case the West renigged on its boundry agreements. As to historacity all I can say is CM's a game that models equiptment etc of the 1944 - 1945 timeperiod and the history part ends their, Ie, historical battles had one outcome in CM we can have many difrent outcomes, forces etc, so modeling troops or tanks vs each other is not a big deal, or a historical travesty, but thats something BTS would have to want to allow ppl to do with the game. Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. February 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 David, Ok you dont want it, that is fair and I respect that. But please tell me how people "who suffered through WWII" would be shocked (or maybe a better word is horrified; in the context used) at the thought of the US vs. the USSR? This is a game still, and most of the scenarios people play are not really all that historical. So if you only wanted to play "historical" games, that means QB's are a bad idea also. Ray [This message has been edited by MantaRay (edited 12-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 MantaRay wrote: > Ok you dont want it, that is fair and I respect that. But please tell me how people "who suffered through WWII" would be shocked (or maybe a better word is horrified; in the context used) at the thought of the US vs. the USSR? I quote from my original post: > You're talking about pretending to prolong the war, and go ahead and kill thousands more people and wreak even more destruction. MantaRay wrote: > This is a game still, and most of the scenarios people play are not really all that historical. So if you only wanted to play "historical" games, that means QB's are a bad idea also. From my post again: > When you play CM, you are safe in the knowledge that you are re-enacting historical events. You can place your battle at a particular time and place (even if it is a fictional scenario). In other words, same war, same combatants, same theatre, but an indeterminate engagement. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Again, David, freedom of choice rules the day. You don't like the idea, don't play it. The main game would indeed be historical. An option just for fun, or better yet, to test whose forces were really superior, would be fantastic. Come on, don't tell me you never wanted to know how the war would go if something like this happened! I bet many people did. This is a perfectly sound and educational tool for acting out this scenario - which could have easily happened in real life - without millions being killed on both sides. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverendo Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 I have to agree with David to some point. It is true that a flexible game engine is always welcome. But BTS has worked very hard to implement a handful of historical details to make the game as accurate as possible. I am speaking about details as unit availability depending on the exact month of the war (even the availability of tungsten rounds regarding the historical supply of such material). Making a battle between Soviets and Soviets would not make much sense, since it would betray the feeling and intention of CM. It would be different, though, if it was a Total Conversion, as the War in the Desert TC that is being developed at the moment. So far, textures and sounds are the only things you can mod in CM, and a War in the Desert TC would not require much more than that (unless you wanted to recreate EXACTLY the desert uniforms, wich would be more a matter of eye candy than anything else). What I think we need is the ability to modify the 3D models as well, for those who know how to use 3D Studio Max or Lightwave 6 might want to make some changes to the current ones. This would allow CM players to make actual total conversions and, IMHO, would save BTS a lot of work, as well as increasing the replayability of the title. This would also require an editor for the unit specs, but I am pretty sure it can be done. If we get an editor for every aspect of CM, we get absolutely any war situation you can name: just make a TC, or look for somebody else to make it. Reverendo, Ye Bloody Scotsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 The Commissar wrote: > An option just for fun, or better yet, to test whose forces were really superior, would be fantastic. > Come on, don't tell me you never wanted to know how the war would go if something like this happened! [...] This is a perfectly sound and educational tool for acting out this scenario Sorry, this is not true. The result of such a conflict would not be decided by the technical specifications of the combatants' hardware. It would be a political and social matter. To defend such a function in CM as 'educational' is a weak argument. > You don't like the idea, don't play it. If I were happy with that solution, I wouldn't be posting here. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Ok, so a country fighting against itself is almost totally unrealistic (Perestroika 2, anyone?), but it only takes a bit of imagination and a look into history books to imagine such conflicts as the US vs USSR. Considering availability of vehicles, ammunition, etc? Well, thats generally easy. By the time the war ends, both sides can use all the technology they have used in previous years. Assuming people don't want this "match up" stuff to go into a game in and of itself (which is not something I want at least), BTS would not have to model any armor/ammo/infantry weapon development after '45. Then again, it WOULD be cool to have my comrads armed with AK-47's Anyhow, I think I made my point. I'll sctuttle off and await further replies! ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 I'd like to see the US square off aainst Space Aliens at the end of WWII.... make it so! -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 David, From what I can tell, you are personally offended by the possibility of such a war. It surely must be so, since most of the original combatants of WW2 are (unfortunately) either deceased or too old to play computer games. So it must be a personal matter. Now, if it is in fact personal, you cannot say you dont want something made just because it contains something you dont like. I am very sure that most of the other posters on this board would indeed be interested in such an option, if only for "test" value. If everyone had to abide by the personal feelings of every single person, games like this would not be made since I am sure there are a lot of people who cannot look at a swasticka (damn bad spelling) without screaming about Nazi culture and faschism. We've had a few on this board, if you remember. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 David wrote: > You're talking about pretending to prolong the war, and go ahead and kill thousands more people and wreak even more destruction. Ummmm, this is war, and since it is a game, how the hell are you killing many extra thousands of people? I served 10 years in the military, participated in Desert Storm, Somilia, and many other smaller engagements that you will never hear about, and if someone wanted to do a scenario or game based on them, why in the hell would I care? And since this game doesnt model social or political aspects of war, someone who lived or fought in WWII may even think, "Boy, for a second there in 1945, I thought Patton was gonna start WWIII." And since many games before CM simulated Cold War USSR vs. the US, what is the big deal with a WWII era matching? AFAIK, we never fought with them in any era. David wrote: >In other words, same war, same combatants, same theatre, but an indeterminate engagement. Well, it would be the same war, combatants, and in the same theatre. The troops are already there............. But the whole issue revolves around would this add to the game. In my opinion, yes it would. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts