CoolColJ Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 This question has been sitting at the back of my head for a couple of months....so I decided to finally ask it In a Operation, you mention the map is dynamicly updated. Does this mean - lets say I've started the 1st phase/push/battle of the operation. I see a certain size map (defined by Scenario designer?)....after turn 1 my leading elements advance 100m up the map. Does the map then, as of next turn, move up 100m in the larger overall map? So if I were to fall back by 100m, then on the next turn the map is scrolled back 100 m? Can I go sideways ...so the map is updated laterally? Damn this game has got me in quivers ...the depth is amazing <marquee> Combat Mission Rocks! </marquee> <marquee> CCj says so! </marquee> ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 01-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 You've basically answered your own questions correctly Except for the lateral movement. The operational maps move back and forth only, not to the sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Show off! DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Umm I think there may be a wee bit of mis-undertsanding here(and it may be totally on my part ) But what Moon is referring to happens at the END of a battle not during. Lets say you are playing in a 6 battle Operation and do quite well and advance near the map edge at the end of battle 1. When you start battle 2 the map will indeed advance beyond what was shown for battle 1 but this doesn't (at least in none of the Operations I have tested) happen within a single battle. What I think Moon did is mis-read your question (As I did the first time around ) and think you were asking about the map changing between battles, not during..Of course I could be totally wrong and everyone can witness the newest beta-tester be thrashed and pubically humiliated by an 'old Hand Beta-tester' who is still smarting after the little Demo Smoke Discharger incident! Love ya Moon man! Madmatt out... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Whoops... yep, I mis-read the question. Looks like one of the junior betas just smoked an alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Hey Moon! When you say he smoked an "alpha" is that stuff legal (BEG)? ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 I want to add just a little more to this discussion. Front lines in operations will vary between battles, depending on: 1. The type of operation 2. The success of the defender-attacker And they may surprise you. Flanking moves by the AI, that you may not even be aware of, can rob you of terrain in the next battle. So you must be aware of your entire front, not just a part of it. For example, in the Team DeSobry Operation, you are faced with defending not only the town of Noville, but must keep the enemy from flanking the town also. Remember they could go through the woods to get to the road to Bastogne. Another feature I like is that you will not be able to always see the entire map when you begin. Some terrain may be unknown to you or the AI, and if you succeed in advancing, you may find new terrain in front of you. Same if you are pushed back. Which partly gives credence to what Dean Robb mentioned in his post on unknown terrain. So Operations have a lot to offer that you have never seen before in a wargame. At least I haven't. ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Wild Bill Wilder (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Well, here in Germany one is ok. Especially when you have a girlfriend from Holland (the country with legal "Coffeeshops") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocky Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 A couple more questions on operations that has been bugging me 1. Can you set up the initial dispositions of troops in an operation (ie lace them in individual sectors) 2.Can you bypass enemy strongholds and subdue them at a later date. 3. Do you get an overall map of the operation area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Crocky, Allow me to answer in order: #1 No, unless you mean for a specific battle then yes although the AI seems to adjust setup areas for subseqent battles. For example in one battle you have a very strong presence on one flank but your center is weak you may notice that when the next battle begins there is this nice setup location over in the flank but your center setup position is a few hundred meters BACK from your lead most unit. This simulates position consolidation after the battle cools off a bit but it also works in the opposite and if you have advanced very strongly along the whole battlefront then in the next battle you may very well begin with a much larger setup area available to you which would simulate you totally 'owning' that parcel of land and freeing up your units to place pretty much wherever you want. #2 NO, Steve has answered this question several times in the past and it all comes down to this being out of the scale of Operations and map size. You are talking about maps that would need to be totally out of scale to the tactical feel of Combat Mission. These strongpoint flanking manouvers were done on a Strategic scale and not so much the Tactical. #3 Currently NO, but its something the Beta testers have commented on wanting to see. I would! But there are pro's and con's to that as well which perhaps someone else could comment on. Another chance Moon!!! Madmatt out... p.s. Umm I don't plan on smoking anything of Moons! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 MadMatt has it right. To add some stuff... 2. If a front line force, like what you command in CM, bypasses something someone ELSE would be in charge of mopping it up. So if you bypass it is out of the battle for good. There is no moving back to a previous sector to deal with the unit/s in question. Yes, this means that if the cut offed units are yours you won't have them from further play. Now, there is a good reason to not get cut off 3. Too difficult to do at this point. Not sure what we might do, if anything, in the future though. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 14, 2000 Share Posted January 14, 2000 Uhh... two answers went up while I was writing this... Geez... I'll try to answer (and read the questions more carefully this time ) 1) Yes, this works basically just like in scenarios. You get setup zones and can move your forces within them. It's up to the designer how much freedom he gives to the player. After the initial battle, however, there is only one big setup zone and you're free to reposition your troops across the whole front. 2)Although it might not seem so, that's a complex topic, hard to explain here on the board. The short (rough) version: bypassing is possible. However, it depends on the type of the operation. In advance types, units will most likely be forced to retreat back into their own lines when bypassed (after all, the goal is to move forward as quickly as possible). In assault types (with the less quickly moving front lines), the chance to be cut-off is much higher. In destroy types (where the map can also be static, basically like a big scenario over the course of a few days), the chances to be cut-off are highest. Again, the mechanics are more complicated than that, but it would require a whole manual to explain 3) Nope. You see the initial map, but not the whole map. Adds nicely to the "fog of terrain" [This message has been edited by Moon (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Moon said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>After the initial battle, however, there is only one big setup zone and you're free to reposition your troops across the whole front.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wow Moon, I hate to keep raining on your parade but on the Operations I have just finished in most of the battles I was presented with a primary setup zone, like you mentioned which was primarily along MY map edge and then up to three additional setup areas which were considerably smaller (maybe 150x150 meters or so although don't hold me to that as I never measured them) and were much deeper into the map which represented the considerable 'penetrations' which I had made into the enemies front in the previous battle. With proper unit setup these 'advanced' setup areas could (and did) serve as excellant jumping off points for further progress but I was also limited to how much I could pack into the smaller setup area, which seems to make perfect sense. Madmatt out... p.s. Perhaps you never saw this in Operations Moon due to your (ahem)limited penetrations??? Now you saw what I did to those planes in Air Attack! You might have Fionn scared of your little toy planes, but not me baby, not me! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Madmatt, ok - so you were a bouncer. Well, I was working behind the bar for two years and learned to shrug remarks like these off with a grin. Look how cold this leaves me: We're both right. You can see several setup areas, but it's still one zone - same color, you see? You can move units between these areas freely. And speaking about limited penetrations... the fact that you need - ahm - secondary jump-off points sounds kinda sad. I usually don't need a second try for my penetrations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Usually? ------------------ Visit my Combat Mission for Mac page! With some exclusive images courtesy of the Combat Mission HQ! cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Behind the bar eh? Yeah thats where it used to be all nice and safe! Hehehe Now that I have "read" what you said I see your point but you also must remember that the poor soul who asked the question hasn't seen what we have with the editor and I was just trying to clear up what to me (and granted I am stupid! I won't argue that one! ) seemed to be unclear information. I think that now between the two of us we got them all confused! Bwahahaha!!! As to my secondary Jump off points, well let me just throw this little tidbit of info for ya...You may have done well with your single penetration in one battle but umm who said I was only fighting on one FRONT!?!?! Oh please stop us.... Madmatt out... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 I understood, from Scott Udell's article at CGO, that units in subsequent battles had very restricted set-up areas. IE, a unit would only be able to move slightly (perhaps 60m). It sounds like this restraint has been relaxed. Is this true? Justin PS I'm questioning what really goes on between the bartenders and bouncers... Sounds like more than idle banter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Madmatt - see, before you started interfering it was all nice and clear And one word of advice with regard to your multiple front penetrations... uh... Hitler tried it, didn't work too long. The attrition factor is quite high Colin - usually. What am I, a goddam' robot or what?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Multiple front penetrations. I've never been able to do that. I guess I'm in the wrong generation...(evil smiley face if I knew how to do one) ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net billw@thegamers.net http://wbr.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted January 15, 2000 Author Share Posted January 15, 2000 Hahah LOL <marquee> I am laughing <marquee> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted January 15, 2000 Author Share Posted January 15, 2000 Errr I think I sort off understand....boy I can't wait, operations is where I'll be spending most of my playing time! For sure CCJ [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 01-14-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 Moon, I REALLY hate to mention this but NOWHERE did Madmatt say that the "multiple penetrations" were all frontal I think I'm going to take a shower now... Bad images hurt my mind ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted January 15, 2000 Share Posted January 15, 2000 MAKE IT STOP!! Please, BTS, release the game. Fionn complained a while ago about the board degenerating and now he's part of the madness!! Please, someone get these horrid images out of my head!! {starts sobbing} (looks at picture of Playmate of the Year Heather Kozar) There. That's better. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocky Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Hey guys thanks for your swift replies to my queries Am really looking forward to recieving my copy of CM Just remember us lads down in New zealand must be first to get it just like we were first to see in the Millenium!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Posted January 16, 2000 Share Posted January 16, 2000 Madmatt, any chance we could get a screenshot of setup zones on a map in the middle of an operation? Might be easier to understand just what you guys are talking about. Also, when do we get to see that picture of you in a dress? Craig [This message has been edited by Craig (edited 01-16-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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