Guest Big Time Software Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Kump, The person losing the Tiger more quickly than he expected was losing them to the British "17 pounder" gun, which is quite a lot more lethal to armor than the standard 75mm or 76mm guns mounted on the Sherman. The 75mm cannot penetrate the Tiger's front at all. Not even at point blank range. And from the flank, it can only penetrate the lower hull (and even that only from a pretty perpendicular angle). The turret and upper hull sides cannot be penetrated by the 75mm. I'd say that's pretty tough. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Charles, Thanks for the reply, and I agree, that is pretty dang tough! Thanks for speaking up and clarifying for me. Its what I suspected and been experiencing, the gun calculations in CM are pretty accurate. So the Tiger I is no dog, just watch out for those nasty 17 pounders. Pop the smoke and kick it into reverse, for the British are coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 The 17 pounder is the only gun I fear when commanding Tigers and Panthers. I laugh at 75s and act a little carefully around 76s but a 17 pounder can take a Panther or Tiger apart from medium range from any angle (including the front). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMC Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Didn't we have this discussion (or one very similar) once before when the beta demo came out? IIRC there was some stink about the Tiger in LD getting whacked by the Three Musketeers in their Hellcats. Lots of folks expect a Tiger to be invincible and were surprised to learn just how vulnerable they could be to the 76mm guns. Was there anyone who didn't lose the Tiger the first time out when the cavalry arrived? Thereafter most adopted a gamey tactic of keeping the Tiger at the map edge to allow it to shrug off the rounds from the Hellcats because they knew when those Hellcats would arrive. Dittohead, those figures look like they refer to the Tiger B(King Tiger). IIRC the rest of the text you mention talks about how although the lower hull of the KT could "in theory" be penetrated by a 17pdr at most normal combat ranges, no one has ever found a specimen of a KT that had been penetrated through the frontal armor. The regular Tiger was killed rather often through the frontal arc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Just to be pedantic, someone mentioned the Tiger was outclassed on the West front but might still be of use in the East. I would have thought the reverse was true given the superiority of Russian armour to Allied tanks.One of the things I have always liked about CM though is the randomness of armour conflicts. Crews WILL bail out if you hammer them with enough saturation fire, this is something I really like as I know for a fact it occured in later wars - Arab Isreali for example; where tank crews bailed out or retreated when hammered with heavy MG fire. Rightfully so as well, if you dont know where its coming from sure it might be a "harmless" infantry unit, on the other hand it might be the coax MG of a tank you cant see range finding on you Cool thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 Dumbo, I think the biggest problem with German tanks on the west front versus the east front was the fact that in the former, the engagement ranges were generally far shorter. This of course negated much of the advantages German armor had over the armor of the western allies. Add in the slow turret traverse of the heavy panzers and the Shermans, especially in their almost limitless numbers, didn't look too bad. On the east front, the germans always maintained an advantage at range if for no other reason than because of their superior optics. The late Russian heavies may have had the armor and firepower to engage the Germans at range but they usually had trouble hitting their targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfred Posted June 20, 2000 Share Posted June 20, 2000 All is revealed right here! http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen3.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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