Guest Mortiis Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Ummm dont know if Im alone on this but Im tired of hearing from some of the old timers of this board how this forum is going downhill. I may be speaking for myself but I take offense to it, it makes us new guys feel like were to blame for the so called downfall of this forum when in reality a few bad apples are to blame and instead it seems like all newcomers are being lumped into this group. I respect all of the old timers for I know they are a part of what made this game great by their suggestions and in some cases direct contributions. But this superior attitude of hey we were here first is getting old. So what if I didnt luck out and happen upon this game sooner than I did (read the review in gamespot) doesnt mean Ihave nothing to contribute to the board.Im actually happy I didnt find out about the development of this game or I would have been tearing my hair out waiting for its release. Anyways dont all you old timers think this is directed at you, I have found by reading past threads and in my own experience that the majority are friendy and quite helpful; and I do understand the odd times one of you gets frustrated once in awhile because of different happenings on this board. I just think that if people keep posting how this board is going downhill because of new blood well alot of newbies are going to scared away from adding their knowledge to the collective in fear of being flamed. Hope I didnt offend anyone with this but thats just the feeling I've been getting lately. Then again I could be dead wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 As a relative newcomer to the board myself, only a few months membership under my belt, i would honestly say don`t worry about it. The old sweats only got shirty if a newbie posts a completely inane question or deliberately attempts to goad people into a flame war and you can`t blame them for that. Enjoy the board my friend, I know I do, I`m here at least 10 times a day, constantly checking threads..i`m well hooked. Now, back to the game..cheerio! ------------------ "If your flank march is going well, the enemy expects you to outflank him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onnel Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Agreed...as someone who has read the board for a year or so but posts only rarely (and also as an inveterate usenet reader), don't worry about anyone ever critizing you for asking a question or saying something. The rights of the writer are a non-issue as it is simple enough for the reader to perform auto-censorship...they simply shouldn't read anything they don't want to! So post away, don't feel bashful and if someone critisizes you for it or tsk-tsk's you for not having done a search, don't fret overly. It's not your job to post what they want to read. This is in no way meant as a flame or attack on anyone. just a reminder that it's not worth getting huffy over someone elses posts. They'll post what they want whether you like it or not. Read (and reply) to what interests you. Good luck on the battlefield! Onnel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I don't think there is any newbie/oldie conflict. If there was, it would be settled by a PBEM game of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I've only just achieved Member status - I haven't been posting for long, but I registered a few months ago. I preordered Combat Mission before the Gold Demo came out, and I've been keeping an eye on the game since well before the Beta Demo. Anyway, I wanted to point out the truth in the arguments of those who believe the board has degenerated. It is inevitable with any game that the vocal fan base will lose some quality once the game is released. Beforehand, the only people discussing it would be those who are so interested that they want to be involved, no matter that the game doesn't yet exist. The standard of discussion at this stage is likely to be high. Once the game is released, obviously the fan base will increase dramatically, because there is now a game to play. And at this stage, people who are more interested in gaming than discussing will appear on the boards. This isn't necessarily a bad thing - it doesn't mean such people have nothing of value to say. However, there are always elements who have little of value to contribute. These people wouldn't have been interested in the game before it was released, because they couldn't play it. But once it came out, they started playing, and then progressed onto the boards. Therefore, the core fan-base will see an influx of people who don't necessarily offer the standard of discussion they were previously accustomed to. This does not mean the 'newbies' are bad people, or they do not have a reason to be here - it just means there will be less in-depth posts going around, and more to do with the practical aspects of gaming. And unfortunately, there will be some posts which have no good reason, or are designed to cause trouble. Some of the 'oldies' may simply be upset at the general shift in focus of the board once the game is released. I think they should accept this change, as it is not a bad thing. Others may be upset at the occasional troll, which is understandable - but I think they should take these with a sense of humour. This forum still has a lot to offer. I haven't been here for too long, but I can understand what has happened - and I would just say that the greater variety should be accepted as a good thing. Not all of it may be good, but without bad things, the world would be a boring place. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neutral Party Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Nostalgia ain't what it used to be. Mortiis get yourself back on icq and send me your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 It comes off sounding VERY similar to the treatment/attitude towards replacements, doesn't it? Seriously though, human nature sucks. If you need more evidence, please see the CC/CM flamewar memorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: Beforehand, the only people discussing it would be those who are so interested that they want to be involved...Once the game is released... the fan base will increase dramatically... at this stage, people who are more interested in gaming than discussing will appear on the boards<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In between were all us "beta babies" who showed up when there was a demo to play (that's when many of us first heard of Combat Mission). That was the beginning of the end, I tell you... The board is fine. The game has spread its wings and found a life of its own, and it really doesn't belong to anybody anymore, and neither does the board ('cept BTS, natch). Beats hell out of Usenet. With all the new blood, the ranks of my constituent idiots are swelling. Brothers and sisters! Feel the power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Mortiis, This "ah gees, newbies" attitude only comes out when some newbie is being a total asshole. I think everyone would agree that most newbies are AOK BUT it's just the ones who are argumentative, bigotted or neo-nazi ( we've had a few questionable cases recently ) that spark the reaction. So, so long as you are polite and don't act the asshole you have nothing to fear so I really don't see a problem myself when, in reaction to some newbie who acts an asshole, someone goes "Hey, that newbie's acting like an asshole... God the forum is going downhill." They're not saying ALL newbies are assholes they're just reacting to one asshole. Hell, if you just look at the facts and figures I'd say 20 or 30 newbies slide into the forum without any notice or bad comment every day. It's only once or twice a week or two weeks that anyone makes a comment about "newbies" and forum quality.. Hence, their comment isn't really directed at all newbies just the one asshole who has made a pain in the neck of himself. So, in short, I think your supposition that old-timers think themselves superior is just plain wrong... However, all the assholes who were old-timers have long since left ( well, mostly ) and so if an asshole happens along it is almost guaranteed to be a newbie. Really the reaction is against assholes and not newbies. It just so happens that all new assholes will, by definition, be newbies. Hmm, it's 1am here so I hope that made some sense . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mortiis Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Fion: When I made the statement of vets acting all superior and whatnot I was not grouping all of the vets, as stated in my post I was refering to a few ("but Im tired of hearing from some of the old timers of this board... ") Anyways I just wanted to vent in my earlier post and since doing so I feel better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Don't sweat it! As a man ages, his brain shrinks, and he gets grumpy, and he starts to whinge about this and that! That's all thats probably happening! Mace <--- old boardgamer speaking from experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mace: Don't sweat it! As a man ages, his brain shrinks, and he gets grumpy, and he starts to whinge about this and that! That's all thats probably happening! Mace <--- old boardgamer speaking from experience<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As a Certified Old Fart™, I can attest to all that and more. Your teeth fall out, your hair falls out, your eyes go bad, and your pecker doesn't get so hard anymore. "Someday, my son, all this will be yours" So be kind to us old farts. Help us across streets. Hold doors open for us. Look the other way when we try to move that stack of Panzers an extra hex. And never forget: you're next, bucko. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mortiis Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 lol, thanx for that uplifting glimpse into the future, now where in the hell did I put that fountain of youth brochure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mortiis Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Oh ya here's a quote you might like; was going to use it as my signature but its too damn long. The most unfair thing about life is the way it ends. I mean, life is tough. It takes up a lot of your time. What do you get at the end of it? A death. What's that, a bonus? I think the life cycle is all backwards. You should die first, get it out of the way. Then you live in an old age home. You get kicked out when you're too young, you get a gold watch, you go to work. You work forty years until you're young enough to enjoy retirement. You drink alcohol, you party, and you get ready for High School. You go to grade school, you become a kid, you play, you have no responsibilities, you become a little baby, you go back into the womb, you spend your last 9 months floating... then you finish off as an orgasm! Amen. George Constanza (Jason Alexander) Seinfeld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCrawler Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: Mortiis, I think everyone would agree that most newbies are AOK BUT it's just the ones who are argumentative, bigotted or neo-nazi ( we've had a few questionable cases recently ) that spark the reaction. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Oh come on now Fionn. Just because someone is proud of their heritage doesn't automatically imply that they have the same views. Sure, JP comes across harsh occasionally, but labeling him as neo-nazi because he is proud of his grandfather having served in the Schutzstaffel is a bit much. Hell, I'm proud of my heritage. My ancestors were slave owners and partisan rangers on the Missouri-Kansas border. I would even go so far as to say that the South had far superior commanders and troops than the North. Does this automatically imply that I am a racist who wants to re-enslave black folks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Hi Mortiis, I for one am glad to make your acquaintence (sp?), and welcome. I'm not a wargamer either, and I'd be glad to play you a game if you want. And thanks for your post. I think most people here realize that CM doesn't exist in a vacuum, but there are 1 or 2 that probably wish it did to keep the wargame 'purity' intact. Wellp...dat's da way it goes!! Later! DeanCo-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipper Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Hmmm...is this the same mortis (morty!) from won's red baron II?..if it is, hi how's it going...Bonzo madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Mortiis, your quote cum signature is too funny, you brightened my day buddy! ------------------ "If your flank march is going well, the enemy expects you to outflank him" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insu Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Hi Mortiis, I really like the quote! As for the thread you brought up I think it you make a point for some newbies. I have only been checking this forum for the last couple of weeks and haven´t been very active posting threads. I see the reason many "old timers" comment on some newbies and most of the time I think they have good reasons for it and not because they are newbies. Personally it doesn´t bother me at all because in those threads the discussion is often already far from the subject and people are starting to throw pies at each other instead of keeping a constructive dialog. While doing that people of course gets pissed off and write things that other misunderstands and here we go again ... I do think, even with my tiny experience from this forum, that more and more threads are off the subject and it is inevitable that some threads will start small conflicts. I do think it is important to comment on things that are stupid or off the subject but I think comments should be done in a way to solve conflicts not to increase them. Many times I would like to post something like "Come on, quit that senseless discussion" but I usually don´t. Most of the people here are OK and I want to take the opportunity to thank many of you for taking your time and explaining things so detailed that anyone with the slightest interest in wargaming and history, like me, become quite fascinated. I have played a lot of wargames both pc and paper and I thought I knew a lot. Well, I don´t .... Be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 NCrawler, Pride in your heritage is one thing. JP's comments are something else. Let's see, "I want to recreate the Malmedy massacre." " Germans ( not German tanks but German people) are superior" Plus his grandad was in the Florian Geyer which was less an SS division than it was a bunch of guys running around killing women and children. The only reason it was a division was for organisational purposes. Personally I'd rate the Florian Geyer as no better than the Gestapo and about as brutal. It did precious little real fighting against people who could defend themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCHEN PEIPER Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 Hey. C'mon stop hitting me below the belt here... OW that hurt. "Florian Geyer" had to be hard ass,,, the partisans did equally as bad and when your fighting partisans and russians combined, ITS KILL, OR BE KILLED... I in no way justify the sensless slaughter of villagers though. ------------------ Quote. If you see a white plane it's American, if you see a black plane it's the RAF. If you see no planes at all it's the Luftwaffe." ---German soldier on the Western Front, 1944. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawyer Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 You "oldies" haven't seen what's really going on here, have you? Here's a tip. "Newbies" is just a code word for the increasing hoard of secret conscripts to the Army of Peng. We are training under cover in Russia, and will soon unleash our superior forces against Berli and Seana-choo-choo and other sleeping giants comfortably resting on their laurels. Yes, we ask stupid and senseless questions to distract and annoy you. Our leader PENG has wisely instructed us to waste your resources and time while simultaneously teaching us the very skills we will need to defeat you. An inspired master plan from Master Peng. Once your vital Oldie juices are diminished (as if they aren't already), the new, improved Giant-Size AoP will strike and smite you into Peng-sized bits. Newbies shall conquer all and inherit the CM universe. WE ARE LED BY PENG! (Unfortunately, Chiang Kai Shek and Franco are heartbeat-challenged, but PENG brings us as much excitement and leadship as these Pseudo-General Mummies could ever do.) Beware of Newbies in Peng clothing. He has issued us extra underclothes, so we are soil-proof. HeHeHe HoHoHo HaHaHa...... ------------------ I fought the Law and the Law won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I was once a newbie and thought newbie thoughts...Give yourself a month and you, too shall lament the passing of the good old days.....LOL..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 I've been here for over a year now but I'm still only 14 (obviously I was 13 at the beggining but only for a month or so) so I have a pretty odd point of view of the goings-on around here. I feel a lot like a newbie sometimes just beacuse I don't understand everything that's happening especcially involving a question about hardware (military I mean). But other times I also get frustrated when I see a new name ask a question that's been asked at least once before. I think it's not that the old timers are against newbies but are simply frustrated. And the only reason you see this is because there are a lot of old timers. It's not a bad thing (except sometimes obviously *cough* Manieri *cough*) but it happens. I say live with it. Another useless post by myself ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
:USERNAME: Posted July 30, 2000 Share Posted July 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: So, in short, I think your supposition that old-timers think themselves superior is just plain wrong... .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly Fionn I think the game as tested by yourself and other "old-timers" proves the point about "superiority". It was ballyhooed that "It wont be released till its DONE!!!" and "Boy, I wish you all could see how GREAT it is!!!", "Wait'll ya see the POTATO MASHERS!!!WOOOOHOOOO!!!", etc , ad nauseum. Well the release of the game and the input of the sudden influx of so called newbies has had a nice effect called 1.03. OBVIOUSLY it wasnt play tested against the AI thouroughly or issues like reality on the battlefield werent addressed. Take credit where credits due and take blame where blames due and show us that you are a man. Lewis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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