dima Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 I was playing "South of Sword" recently and had two Churchills there with flamethrowers attached. While flame-throwing is cool to watch, something else amaized me. The tank was located on the open ground, ~700 meters from advancing enemy Panzers, Lynx's etc. beside my Churchill there were a couple of Shermans, Stuarts... Enemy started attacking. From 700 meters it took one, at worst two derect hits to destroy Sherman, one for Stuart, but my Churchill took 11 hits, direct hits, and no damage whatsoever. Most shells bounced off, or broke ! The question is, are those really that strong ? They appear to be stronger than even Tigers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 Check the armour rating (depending on type). Churchill has 140-152, Shermans 64-100, stuarts 38-57. Tigers have 100. So yes they are tough to kill. However churchills have crappy guns though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybeq Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 I just had a Churchill immobilized by a 20mm flak gun and another brewed up by one shot from a hull-down Stug at 525 meters. My other Churchill was snuffed by a freakin' schreck at 110 meters. They don't seem more survivable than a Tiger to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted November 23, 2000 Author Share Posted November 23, 2000 Is there any way to check such kind of features of tank and other vehicles? I know there is in-game info, where I click on the unit and can open page with all the info. Hovewer it is silly in heat of a battle to start learning about your ( and enemy's ! ) strength and faults Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 easy select the unit hit the enter or return key on my Mac it is the Return key and Voila ! instant unit stats. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
420 Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 i fell in love with the churchill during south of sword. it shrugged off hits from the panzer VI's while my shermans and fireflies were dying left and right. the best part was charging the objective on the hill and flushing out the german infantry with the flamethrower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 Dima Go to <a href="http://w1.312.telia.com/~u31213280/index.htm" target="new">ASL Maps for Combat Mission<a/> webpage Has a database (in the Addons section) you can download, which details units quite well [This message has been edited by Pud (edited 11-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted November 23, 2000 Author Share Posted November 23, 2000 420, I actually lost "South of Sword" two times, miserably, trying to play "by the book", placing units far away, by the buildings, on the flanks, until I decided to just move them forward, put them all close together and just let them shoot at approaching tanks.As a result I lost 13 vehicles, enemy lost 48 ! [This message has been edited by dima (edited 11-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dima Posted November 23, 2000 Author Share Posted November 23, 2000 Pud, I was actually interested in some place else, not during the game, to find details on every unit. Maybe a web-site or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pud Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 Yep. try that database, its an Excel spreadsheet, you will need excel 97/2000, or grab the excel viewer. Has images, stats on vehicle and inf. hes yet to do guns etc. Pud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captitalistdoginchina Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 Yes, the spreadsheet is a great accessory to CM, i printed out all the vehicle details for Axis, American and British armour/vehicles and put them in seperate binders. Whilst playing CM i can open the binder at the page of the vehicle and see the instant stats - it is also useful at the purchase screen to use as a reference. I always keep the binders close to my computer. Well worth the download - and make sure you add the pictures!! CDIC ------------------ "Death solves all problems - no man no problem" J.V.Stalin, 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 In a recent PBEM my opponent had a mob of Churchills and Crocs. I had a German Panzerschreck Team that had already taken out one Churchill and later targetted another. I was very surprised when I got a "Good" on the To Hit and "None" on the To Kill. I didn't believe it so I shot at it. It hit and it didn't kill just like it said. Very weird so I started thinking about it. Was the angle of deflection too shallow causing the HEAT round to bounce or detonate away from the Vehicle or was the armor just way too thick for anything to get through? So I set up a quick test on the firing range and it turns out that when a Churchill/Croc is approximately at a 45 degree angle to the firer it is damn near impossible to knock out. While I cannot recall the specifics of my test I believe even a King Tiger rated no better than Good at under 100 meters and it may have been only OK. The 128 was the only gun at UNDER 100 meters that had an excellent rating. It simply amazes me the amount of detail that has gone into this game to even consider that a tank might be tougher to actually kill when it is at an angle to the firer. Someone mentioned on another thread if there were any easter eggs in CM. To an amateur military historian like me this is an easter egg wrapped in a damn well though out and designed game. Harold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Fredriksson Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 So... the best way to charge with a Churchill would be to zig-zag it in towards target? But making sure you got steep angles, so it suddenly doesn't show only side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captitalistdoginchina: Yes, the spreadsheet is a great accessory to CM, i printed out all the vehicle details for Axis, American and British armour/vehicles and put them in seperate binders. Whilst playing CM i can open the binder at the page of the vehicle and see the instant stats - it is also useful at the purchase screen to use as a reference. I always keep the binders close to my computer. Well worth the download - and make sure you add the pictures!! CDIC <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Total OT: CDIC! Ah, I see you use office supplies for CM but not playing it with office machines??? It is a sin!!! BTW, can you spare me some binders? BTT: I think Churchills are the heaviest flamethrowers in the CMBO. It is wierd and thank goodness I have never go against this one so far! Anybody tried to ko'ed one using grenade? Looks like it is an exception to my rule "always engage Allied panzers > 500m" Will try South of Sword tonite. Griffin. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Mike Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 Played a few PBEM against a Canadian living in Germany (yes, you Mensch!). He loves to use those Churchill´s. First PBEM my armour got smoked, but the second one I bought the ultimate and most affordable killer of those ugly bastards ... JPz IV/70 ... with those it is quite easy to smoke those monsters ... Captain Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo Posted November 23, 2000 Share Posted November 23, 2000 A couple of grenades down the hatch will do the trick too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow 1st Hussars Posted November 24, 2000 Share Posted November 24, 2000 they've got some of the thickest armour. Right up there with the King Tiger and JagdTiger. They were use mostly for close support. The Canadians at Juno on D-Day send in a whole whack of them. It's cool watching videos of them stroll across the beaches blasting the hell out of German Fortifications. It probably wouldn't be that cool if I was one of the Germans.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 24, 2000 Share Posted November 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shadow 1st Hussars: they've got some of the thickest armour. Right up there with the King Tiger and JagdTiger. They were use mostly for close support.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Try out the Jagdtiger again. Take a few Sherman Jumbos or Firefly's against one. You'll see just how insanely powerful a JT is. To compare it to a Churchill is an insult to it. They have 250mm of armour. The Churchills have 152mm. I fell in love with the JT. Use it properly and it's worth all of those points! ------------------ And if we abandon any platform, I can assure you it will not be the Macintosh. -Steve My website! A major source of Wild Bill scenarios! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted November 24, 2000 Share Posted November 24, 2000 Usual spoiler warnings: : : : : : : : : : : Well, the downside of Jagatiger is the number of ammo it carries. But you will love this baby when she shoots a column of Allied tanks from the rear in the scenario "Magnificent Seven". BTW, in "South of Sword", you have a unit of Flak-88, I think it may be the only direct-fire weapon to deal with thouse Churchiles there. Oh people, this scenario is hugh, I used 3 hours last nite but just in turn 10. However, I managed to pin down most British armor at the exit to the village and make prey for my mortars! HeHe! So far the British has lost at least 5 Sherman V, 1 Firefly II, 2 Straut, and numerous HTs. I am not sure about their infantry loss though but I have pulled down at least 2 buildings with a lot of "dots" inside. I have lost 4 PzIVs and 1 STuG III. Looks like they are paper-thin even getting hit from range > 600m. And I can see the Churchills are rolling forward behind the trees -- but my 88 is operational in 5 turns. More to tell later if you are interested. Griffin. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again [This message has been edited by GriffinCheng+ (edited 11-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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