FO and Radio's

[Dittohead]

Not sure if asked before, But is it possible when you kill one of the forward observers i the team that their radio also gets knocked out. Or if while shooting at them you knock out the radio but not kill either one? Or maybe their radio breaks or can't make contact in bad weather scenarios. Or do radios always work regardless of combat or weather conditions.?

Tony

[ARCHANGEL]

NO !! Radio's DON'T always work regardless of combat or weather conditions. They are like cell phones..they can be disturbed by terrain, sunspots, storms, etc.

[Black Sabot]

I believe Dittohead was referring to the FOs of CM, in which case as long as the team can function (not broken, routed, or both are dead) then they can always contact the battery which they control.

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"I do like to see the arms and legs fly"

[Dittohead]

Yea that's what I meant. There shouldn't be 100% contact between FO and the Artillery all the time. Should be similar to ASL with radios breaking or losing contact. Remember all the radio problems the Allies had during Market Garden.

Tony

[Jon_S]

I think this could be put in the same basket as vehicle breakdowns. That is, during the course of a single scenario a radio/vehicle is unlikely to have a breakdown/lose contact. Such things would likely have happened before battle was joined - ie before the scenario began.

This is demonstrated in, um, Reisburg where the scenario notes mention that one Sherman is missing from the platoon because it broke down that morning.

Regards

Jon

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Ubique

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ARCHANGEL:

Radio's DON'T always work regardless of combat or weather conditions. They are like cell phones..they can be disturbed by terrain, sunspots, storms, etc.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean: that radios, like cell phones, are at the mercy of external factors.

But the worst cell phone ever made was WAY better than the radios we had in Germany, and those radios were WAY better than the ones in WWII. They were the best technology could do at the time, but they were awful.

If you really wanted to get crazy, you could model comm outages when FOs are in the "shadow" side of hills from the battery, in valleys, or in deep forests, which would include about 2/3 of the terrain we have seen so far. The best places to communicate with those old radios (clear, high areas) are usually the worst places to survive in a tactical environment.

[Dittohead]

Yea, but vehicles can be bogged and then imobilized like in CE. AI had the 75+ bog and imobilized on the 4th turn in one game. So if tanks can break so should Radio's. At least it would be more realistic and frustrating.

Also I was wondering if there will be FO's riding in tanks?

Might need Steve or Charles to answer.

Tony

[Guest Scott Clinton]

It is my understanding that 'loss of radio contact', ect. is already in the game. It is just abstracted and you guys have never noticed (I guess).

When you start a turn and your FO says "2 min" until fire for effect...then when the turn is over (ie 60 seconds later) it says 1min 55sec...haven't you wondered why?!?

I have always figured that this 'unforseen delay' was do to loss of contact, ect. It is just abstracted.

I don't think that SPECIFIC radio 'breakdowns' need to be modelled in a game of this scale, the current system handles it quite well IMO.

I have been wondering though...do the 'fire for effect' times, and possible delays vary from country to country? I mean are they the same for the British as they are for the US as they are for the Germans...hmmmmm...

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 06-09-2000).]

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton:

It is my understanding that 'loss of radio contact', ect. is already in the game...When you start a turn and your FO says "2 min" until fire for effect...then when the turn is over (ie 60 seconds later) it says 1min 55sec...haven't you wondered why?...I have always figured that this 'unforseen delay' was do to loss of contact, ect. It is just abstracted<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yes, I have wondered, and that answers it pretty well. I usually assume the delay is the result of the effects of counter-battery fire, or the off-board equivalent of Jam. This is a very good point.

Historically radios sucked, until arty or bad guys cut your field wire. Then radios sucked less. I guess it's in there!

[Hunter]

Actually I rather like the idea that BTS could do some more detailed modelling of radio contact. It would be fun (!) to find that your FO was out of contact and then try to run him up to a high point or clearing to re-establish contact.

I like the idea because it is so ridiculously detailed, it is the sort of thing BTS just might put in

Bruce

[Wayne]

.

Historically radios sucked, until arty or bad guys cut your field wire. Then radios sucked less. I guess it's in there!

[Guest grunto]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wayne:

.

I have read that because Allied radio security was so bad, the German Army had a field day at finding enemy artillery positions and bringing in counter battery fire. Their intelligence service was also able to tell a great deal that the Allies wanted to keep secret.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

at a high level the german security was worse. hitler had a top-level leak - 'lucy' if memory serves - and no one ever for sure figured out who it was. apparently this 'lucy' leak was one of the top 10 or 15 politicians or generals in germany; one of the 15 or so peope who met with hitler in really important meetings.

perhaps in the field the allies' (at least western) security was worse.

then the russians had sorge in tokyo who told him japan was going to attack america so stalin shifted more armies from siberia to the battle of moscow.

andy

[Wayne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grunto:

at a high level the german security was worse. hitler had a top-level leak - 'lucy' if memory serves - and no one ever for sure figured out who it was. apparently this 'lucy' leak was one of the top 10 or 15 politicians or generals in germany; one of the 15 or so peope who met with hitler in really important meetings.

perhaps in the field the allies' (at least western) security was worse.

then the russians had sorge in tokyo who told him japan was going to attack america so stalin shifted more armies from siberia to the battle of moscow.

andy<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anybody ever read A BODYGUARD OF LIES written sometime in the early 1970s? Very interesting take on the Enigma Machines, British special operations and the Allied deception program to throw Germany off the track concerning the invasion of France. There's probably newer works on the subject but this is the one book I have read on this subject.