A question for BTS regarding British "firepower"...

[Vanir Ausf B]

Originally posted by xguy:

Steve,

Something is not quite right with the numbers.

If this is the case, the MG42 LMG listed under support with the 2-man "crew" has the wrong values, they should be 56/50/33/19...

It's clear from Steve's post that at one time the crewed LMG had FP 56 at 40m and FP 19 at 500m but this was reduced down to 50 and 18 at some point. You suggest that this is a mistake and that may well be. The other possibility is that when they adjusted the crewed LMG they forgot to do the same for the squad LGMs. So either the crewed LMGs FP is too low or the FP for squads with LMGs is too high.

In either case, something is messed up. I'm surprised no one else has seen this before. That's a damn fine research job digging up this old post. Hopefully BTS will see this during a break from CM2.

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What a bunch of horsecrap. -Steve

[Spook]

Geez, that's the first time I've had one of my old topics "dug up" from the forum graveyard. What's next for me...the Cesspool?

(Not faulting you new posters for digging this up. It just kinda surprised me, that's all. )

[Vanir Ausf B]

I figured people would be all over this. Come on, it's an obvious problem.

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What a bunch of horsecrap. -Steve

[xguy]

Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B:

In either case, something is messed up. I'm surprised no one else has seen this before. That's a damn fine research job digging up this old post. Hopefully BTS will see this during a break from CM2.

Thanks, I too am surprised there wasn't more information on this apparent discrepancy.

Originally posted by Spook:

Geez, that's the first time I've had one of my old topics "dug up" from the forum graveyard. What's next for me...the Cesspool?

Well, I was looking for the LMG FP issue specifically, and to my surprise, this was the only post I could find referencing it. I also noted that it wasn't even the original subject.

[Spook]

Well, given that no further updates are planned for CMBO, your best chance of getting attention for your issue, in regards to CM2 development, is to create it as a new topic (with a title in caps using words like "DESIGN ERROR").

Or better, e-mail to Madmatt or Steve of BTS. They've usually been pretty responsive on that route for me.

[This message has been edited by Spook (edited 03-29-2001).]

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I would just like to add my voice to those that have expressed the opinion as to just how impressive it is to see the detail that Steve and Charles have gone into. They have set new standards.

About five years ago I remember sitting in a pub and commenting that it was inevitable that one day someone would produce a computer version of Squad Leader. However, I used to qualify this by adding that “of course, all the firepower/penetration data will be wrong but we will just have to live with that”. Not only have Steve and Charles produced a stunning Squad Leader scale game but all the data is correct too, I am permanently in shock over this.

That does not mean I agree with ever figure in CM, we all have are own opinions on some of the finer points. What it does mean is that Steve and Charles have got as much correct as any one ever will, more than I would have.

This is the thing that so impresses me with CM. I fully expected to have to play a computer game that was aimed at the same niche as Squad Leader but like Squad Leader often had the wrong data.

Permanently in shock as to just how much of a true simulation, rather than just a game, CM is, in my view, however little that is worth as all my knowledge of these matters comes from books.

All the best,

Kip.

[Guest Big Time Software]

Hi folks,

I am pretty sure this was covered in another thread at one time, but if not... here is the explaination

True. If a VG Heavy squad is down to just two MG42s, and a SS PzGren squad is also down to just two MG42s, the VG squad will have a lower firepower rating. The reason is, as was pointed out by xguy, is that the firepower adjustment is inherent and is not dynamically calculated based on if there is an assistant or not. This is an inherent limitation to the system we have in place.

We are not planning on changing how this works for CM2. The reasons are:

1. It is VERY rare for a unit to only wind up with the last one or two guys with LMGs.

2. Even if this happens the unit in question will most likely be not combat effective for one reason or another anyway.

3. If the remains of such a unit do remain combat effective, AND actually being used in combat, the chances are that it will not last long (eliminated or routed).

4. One LMG, or even two, on its own, no matter which FP rating you are talking about, will not be enough to alter the course of a battle one way or the other.

In short... like many things in Combat Mission, this treatment is not perfect. However, it must be kept in mind that it only "fails" under extremely unlikely circumstances. Since there are many more things, which come up far more frequently and with greater impact on the game, which need our attention this particular quirk will not be addressed for the next version. When we do a rewrite of the game engine this will definitely be addressed as we will make fundamental changes to the way squads work internally.

Steve

[Guest Big Time Software]

Also keep in mind that realistically the firepower and ammo for a one man LMG "team" should be dramatically reduced. So whichever FP number you see, depending on squad type, is unrealistically high. LMGs required at least one other man, two standard, to operate it effectively for more than just a few bursts.

Steve