Plea for the Kitchen Sink

[Neutral Party]

OB&G

Let me see if I've got this right.

A chicken company is coming to your town - so

1. all the kids get the day off school

2. the whole town turns out to welcome the chicken company

3. the chicken company doesn't turn up

By any chance was your local bank robbed that day ?

Joe

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Neutral Party:

OB&G

Let me see if I've got this right.

A chicken company is coming to your town - so

1. all the kids get the day off school

2. the whole town turns out to welcome the chicken company

3. the chicken company doesn't turn up<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, you got it!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>By any chance was your local bank robbed that day ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which one? That's one thing that this small town has a lot of. Everybody that comes back to this town that used to live here a while back always says, "What's with all the banks?"

You see this town was a mining town since its beginning back in the mid to late-1800s. But since most of the coal mines have shut down in the last 15-20 years, the owners of the remaining mines have opened new banks. Matter of fact, one bank is a small replica of Thomas Jefferson's home Monte Cello. (The back of a US nickel)

But as for the Tyson Chicken deal, that was an embarrisment for the community. Even after a "town meeting" which showed tremendous support for them, they still decided to go elsewhere. I won't mention where, but I heard they've pissed off the chicken farmers there too.

[Lurker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lucero1148:

I am currently playing Riesburg as the Germans for the 1st time and my 1st PBEM ever . It is turn 12, I'm out of mortar ammo, no HE for the 88 and trying to stop the US troops with AP rounds. All his tanks are dead and I'm in position to encircle a pocket of about 40+ GI's on my right flank. My left flank is stonewalling his advance there too but I'm seriously low on ammo, period. I can't find any kitchen sinks in the village, I could cetainly use them if they were there. Or even a broken toilet. Am I playing an early version or is there another update to the demo no one talks about.

Duh,

Patrick

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Patrick,

I have thrown everything I could find (including the kitchen sink) at the Amis in Riesburg. Try using your Heavy Volksgrenadier Plumbing Engineer units (pardon my ignorance concerning the proper nomenclature for this unit) to search for kitchen sinks in some of the larger buildings in town.

-Lurker

[Guest Big Time Software]

Lewis,

If you have a brain, and you can type, doesn't mean that you can do anything more productive than annoy.

I can be just as obnoxious (or in your mind witty) as you, no problem. But generally I don't because there is little point, is there? At least when someone doesn't agree with me I don't whine like a 4 year old spoild rotten child that didn't get some piece of candy. Hey, at least you are getting attention, which is clearly what you want most. I know you said you act like a 14 year old, but sometimes you don't even meet that standard.

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 05-08-2000).]

[Guest Captain Foobar]

Back to the Kitchen Sink thing, there is evidence that the Allies also possessed this technology.

In fact, MadMatt has a POTD showing a German force getting hit with it.

"and the Kitchen Sink" POTD, from Sunday

It does indeed appear to be a terrible weapon, as seen in the devastation of these soldiers

combathq.thegamers.net

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Captain Foobar:

Back to the Kitchen Sink thing, there is evidence that the Allies also possessed this technology. /URL] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let's face it, those were probably Beutespülen, there is no way Allied engineering could have come up with something as complicated yet effective, good-looking and easy to use as the Schwere Kampfspüle VIII - Ausf. F (fondly known among the Landsers as 'Kartoffelrotze' - 'potato spitter'. Pretty much like the Schwurbel, really.

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Andreas

[Username]

Woh seems like steve cant take a joke!

Lighten up there Big Time Software guy. I am not the only one having a little Parody fun.

Lewis

BTW It was a common tactic to layer kitchen sinks to the outside of frozen Normandy cattle and send them into MG42 positions.

[This message has been edited by Username (edited 05-08-2000).]

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Username:

BTW It was a common tactic to layer kitchen sinks to the outside of frozen Normandy cattle and send them into MG42 positions.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only until they ran out of ice-skates. That was sometime around June 23rd, 18.53.07 hours, me thinks. So I hope that in the interest of realism no scenario designer will be allowed to have the Germans use deep-frozen cows on skates as Kampfspülenträger after this time. BTS, can you please confirm that. Otherwise I'll have to cancel my pre-order, my heart would not be able to handle the stress of such farb.

Boy am I bored...

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Andreas

[Fionn]

Lewis,

That cow thing.. That'd be something the Germans got from the Russians with their "dogs with potato peelers" battalions right?

Trust the Germans to take a simple idea and light-weight delivery system and make it super-heavy and massively armoured/armed.

[lucero1148]

Lurker,

So after finding kitchen sinks in the larger buildings and using them against your opponent what were the effects? Are they as effective as learned members of this community have stated or is it all as substantial as the methane gas produced by that frozen cow in Normandy?

In hindsight that's maybe why we had mad cows a few years ago.

OB'G,

Tyson seems to have as much heart as one of their frozen chickens.

All best to all

Patrick

[Mark IV]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

Try using your Heavy Volksgrenadier Plumbing Engineer units (pardon my ignorance concerning the proper nomenclature for this unit) to search for kitchen sinks in some of the larger buildings in town.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Schwerer Klempnerabeiter Korps. Easily recognized by the coveted PorzellanAngriff Abzeichen on their tunics.

Last-ditch attempts to use the crude Volks-Spüle were disappointing, and definitely not worth modeling.

[This message has been edited by Mark IV (edited 05-08-2000).]

[Username]

Everyone knows the russian dogs 'n potato peelers were only used against the japanese and were a failure due to the koreans eating them!

The highly effecient frozen cow 'n sinks were a dual purpose weapon. After the attack fresh dethawed cow chunks were waiting for the cooks in reusable armored sinks! Stop enemy fire AND help feed the troops! True german effeciency..

Lewis

[Lurker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lucero1148:

Lurker,

So after finding kitchen sinks in the larger buildings and using them against your opponent what were the effects?

All best to all

Patrick<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

After using my Schwerer Klempnerabeiter Korps (thanks for Mark IV for supplying the correct name) to obtain the kitchen sinks, I was able to hold the line against the amis and throw them back with heavy casualties.

I was able to eliminate an entire company of GI's as they rushed my positions. Two kitchen sinks used at close range and it was all over. Potato peels everywhere!

If I keep this up, I may get rid of the Junior Member status and trade it in on Member status!

-Lurker

[Compassion]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

After using my Schwerer Klempnerabeiter Korps (thanks for Mark IV for supplying the correct name) to obtain the kitchen sinks, I was able to hold the line against the amis and throw them back with heavy casualties.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet the Werner Klemperer Korps would have kicked the Schwerer Klempnerabeiter Korps ass.

[Guest Big Fat Guy]

First off, let me say that everyone knows the Germans didn't use bed pans, they made thunder polls. Each map in CM should have a thunder poll. One should at least be on every map the Germans are defending anyway.

Those Kitchen sinks must be in as well.

*ducks Steve's swing*

[Seanachai]

This thread has involved some of the most erudite discussion I have ever come across on a message board, and with cap doffed, I paraphrase the great Winston Churchill:

"Never have so many, said so much, about so little..."

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After witnessing

exceptional bravery from

his Celtic mercenaries,

Alexander the Great

called them to him and

asked if there was

anything they feared.

They told him nothing,

except that the sky might

fall on their

[Guest MantaRay]

Damn, I hope this game comes out soon!!!! Otherwise someone will bring up flying monkeys and proclaim that Monty was a great General.

Maybe Steve should move this topic to the Plumbing section.

Ray

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When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one."

MantaRays 5 Pages

Hardcore Gamers Daily

[Dschugaschwili]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn:

Personally I think that the "porta-sink Ausf D" is extremely important and that the two-man "throwing teams" which were utilised to deploy this weapons system should be modelled.

Oh, and before anyone asks... No, I don't think the toxic and biological aspects of kitchen sinks (or even "public toilet Ausf Ds") should be modelled since we're not modelling conventional gas shells either.

Also, does anyone have any info about the nahverteidisinks mounted on late-war AFVs ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't have put very much time on researching this topic, right? I mean, you didn't even find the correct German terms for these weapons.

Apart from that, (and considering how the Germans loved heavy stuff) I tend to agree with GermanBoy on the Schwere Kampfspüle Ausführung Y. And it's really a shame that it isn't included in CM in the first place.

By the way, did at least the lighter Kloschüsselwerfer Ausführung E make it in? I've heard they were highly effective and much cheaper than regular arty.

Dschugaschwili

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Apart from that, (and considering how the Germans loved heavy stuff) I tend to agree with GermanBoy on the Schwere Kampfspüle Ausführung Y. And it's really a shame that it isn't included in CM in the first place.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you Dschugaschwilli, finally someone on this board who knows what he is talking about apart from me, of course - that I should live to see the day. And I agree about the Kloschüsselwerfer, but I fear that the iconoclasts responsible for this game will not put it in. Riots in the streets, rivers of blood I foresee about that one. Don't even get me started on the Volksklospüle, that unique combo weapon derived from the Eierlegende Wollmilchsau (Sdkfz.999 Ausf.W).

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Andreas

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 05-09-2000).]

[Hakko Ichiu]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Don't even get me started on the Volksklospüle, that unique combo weapon derived from the Eierlegende Wollmilchsau (Sdkfz.999 Ausf.W).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are way off base here. Please quote your sources in detail because all my extensive research on German plumbing and animal husbandry refutes your groundless implications.

According to Wilhelm Arschshlitz, Oberhauptsturmbahnrohrleger of the 352nd Installateurabteilung of the 116th Volksklempner Division, no Volksklospülen were made available to Wehrmacht plumbing units on the Western front. [see his memoirs, "Men of Lead", (Edina, MN: Drano Press, 1953)]. Furthermore, the only Eierlegende Wollmilchsauen reported by Allied troops in WTO were prototypes captured at various V-Molkereien in Holland. [see especially, Clem Hayseed and Roger Lambs, "Axis Nazi V-Cattle of the German Wehrmacht Army during World War II (The Big One), 1939-1945" (Brattleboro, VT: Sheep Shag Press, 1969)]

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Ethan

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Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu:

You are way off base here. Please quote your sources in detail because all my extensive research on German plumbing and animal husbandry refutes your groundless implications.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, everybody knows that the captured Eierlegende Wollmilchsäue were the prototypes for the Lookheed Starfighter, and played a major role in putting Americans on and over the moon. The US just kept it low. Obersturmbahnrohrleger Arschlitz has been exposed as a curtain-ring salesman from Springfield, In. who was employed by the CIA to confuse the Soviets and keep them feeling safe. I thought that was such obvious general knowledge that it does not need mentioning. They are still using the EWMS in Area 51 to this day, and there are rumours of their use in the Balkans.

From 'Memoiren eines Volkssturmmetzgers' (Memoirs of a Volkssturmbutcher): "Während der letzten Tage des Krieges wurde ständig eine neue Sau durchs Dorf getrieben." p.98,785, para 98 line 34. Now if that does not convince you, I am afraid I won't be able to break your ignorance.

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Andreas

[Hakko Ichiu]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Actually, everybody knows that the captured Eierlegende Wollmilchsäue were the prototypes for the Lookheed Starfighter, and played a major role in putting Americans on and over the moon. The US just kept it low.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The depths of your ignorance never cease to astonish me. Anyone with half a brain knows that the Lockheed Starfighter was based on the Small Green Alien Foo Fighter that was captured at Roswell. Furthermore, the fact that you are gullible enough to believe that an American actually "landed" on the "Moon" pretty much proves my argument beyond the possibility of refutation.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Obersturmbahnrohrleger Arschlitz has been exposed as a curtain-ring salesman from Springfield, In. who was employed by the CIA to confuse the Soviets and keep them feeling safe. I thought that was such obvious general knowledge that it does not need mentioning.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is merely what the CIA want you to believe. In fact, Arschschlitz was part of the secret OSS operation "Pipe Snake" to resettle German plumbers in the United States in order to help bridge the WC gap with the Soviets.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>From 'Memoiren eines Volkssturmmetzgers' (Memoirs of a Volkssturmbutcher): "Während der letzten Tage des Krieges wurde ständig eine neue Sau durchs Dorf getrieben." p.98,785, para 98 line 34. Now if that does not convince you, I am afraid I won't be able to break your ignorance.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a typical Goebbels propaganda trick. It was the same sow every time. See Hayseed and Lambs, p. 1254 para. 5, line 12.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>They are still using the EWMS in Area 51 to this day, and there are rumours of their use in the Balkans.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who told you this? What do you know? How did you get this information? Where are your sources? Oh my God, have They gotten to you too? Someone remove the implants!!!!

Ethan

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Ethan

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Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe

[Lurker]

Here are some questions for our experts who seem to know everything (including the kitchen sink):

What type of fuses did the kitchen sinks use?

Could a kitchen sink be made to bounce to create a more devastating air burst?

If kitchen sinks can be made to bounce, how effective were they when bounced against the underside armor of enemy tanks?

I seem to remember hearing reports of special "low rider" tanks developed to protect the weak belly armor of tanks. Can any one corroborate these reports?

Thanks in advance for the answers,

-Lurker

[Dschugaschwili]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lurker:

Here are some questions for our experts who seem to know everything (including the kitchen sink):

What type of fuses did the kitchen sinks use?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the kitchen sinks didn't need fuses. That's what made them the cheap yet devastating weapon system they were. With an impact velocity of about 100m/s (when used in the indirect fire role), even on soft ground enough the projectiles burst into several thousand fragments, enough to take out quite a few men. There are even reports of knocked out half-tracks that suffered a top hit.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Could a kitchen sink be made to bounce to create a more devastating air burst?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are rumors that some of the Schwere Küchenspüle batteries were equipped with a VT fuse similar to those used in Flak units, but I couldn't find a source confirming this.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

If kitchen sinks can be made to bounce, how effective were they when bounced against the underside armor of enemy tanks?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The kitchen sink was designed to be an anti-infantry weapon primarily, successful uses against lightly armored vehicles were common, but it was rarely used against tanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

I seem to remember hearing reports of special "low rider" tanks developed to protect the weak belly armor of tanks. Can any one corroborate these reports?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I will have to leave this one to others. I don't have reliable sources on this topic.

Dschugaschwili

[Snark]

Winston Churchill is quoted in a post war statement:

"That if the Germans had been able to deliver Kitchen sinks with bombers" That "the Allies would most certanly would have lost 'The Battle of Britton"

Im suprized no one has mentiond the Japanese version of the 'Kitchen Sink'. Although identical in apearance to the German version it was made of inferior materials and didnt work well. Collectors of WWII parifanalia indentify the 'Jap' version by the small print on the bottom. "Made in Japan"