CoolColJ Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 SOme of you are upgrading to a Geforce DDR for CM....well wait!! The Geforce 2 GTS has about to be released! And its a lot faster! I'm saving for a 64 meg Geforce 2 now core speed goes from 125 to 200 mhtz, memory speed from 150 to 166mhtz, die is shrunk to 18 microns size Woo Hoo - its at least 60% faster. A perfect compliement to a 1 Gigahertz Athlon - its even faster than the new Voodoo v5500, and it also has FSAA too BTW the new v5.16 Nvidia drivers have FSAA on D3D! Now its time to check Cm out in FSAA glory ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there, or grab a CM Wallpaper! [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 04-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Well, considering that the GeForce 2 GTS has on-chip texture compression, there isn't a game out there that would benefit from having 64MB ram. Talk about overkill... And I don't think it will be at least 60% faster in real world scenarios. Ok, at resolutions above 1280x1024, it may be true, but do you have a monitor that can handle 1600x1200 physically? I don't. And I don't mind. By the way, who needs 60 fps in CM anyways? Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 26, 2000 Author Share Posted April 26, 2000 Well My Tnt2 is painfully slow when using 3d Apps And so is a Geforce, believe me 32 megs is not enough! There are some games using 30+ megs of textures now, hmmm CM with 60 megs of textures hmmmmm If you have WIndows at 1280x1024, with a 32 bit desktop piccie, and then you play a game at the same res with ultra high tetxure option, boom you've used up 32 megs Well the Geforce 2 - has extra goodies too, like multi shaded pixles etc etc - plus it has the fill rate to do FSAA on d3d and OpenGL - hmmmm that is very nice too you know Especially for CM - since framerates above 30 are sufficient, and FSAA with help CM's visual a lot. ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Well, if your TNT2 is painfully slow when using 3d apps, you can always give it to me so I can replace my Voodoo2. I guess our understanding about sufficient frame rates differs somewhat. By the way, have you even read my reply? But anyways, with the texture compression of the GeForce 2 you should be able to cram 60 MB of textures into the 32MB the GeForce 2 cards will most likely have. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Cool, Sure, G2 looks like the king of video cards at the moment, but does it add that much for CM? BTS has said that CM’s graphics are maxed out with a 16 Mb card. More does not add anything significant. CM does not use much of the special functions that the G2 card offers, simply because it was not programmed to do so. The G2 is designed with DirectX 8.0 games in mind. When playing CM there will still "only" be software FSAA in D3D, just as you can get with an ordinary GeForce today. Nvidia’s hardware D3D FSAA solution is not backward compatible like the one used by 3Dfx. CM most probably being "backwards" in this context, like almost all current D3D games. As far as I can see CM looks to be much more dependent on the CPU, while not taxing the video card very much. This would mean that money could be much more effectively spent upgrading the processor rather than getting a fancy video card. CM2, CM3, CM4, who knows? But as far as this first CM goes I think that anyone with a good 16 Mb card has all bases covered. M. [This message has been edited by Mattias (edited 04-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 26, 2000 Author Share Posted April 26, 2000 Texture compression won't look too nice with CM, you get artifacts for sure, you'll notice this on the grass tetxures. 16mb? Not when I crank out my textures mod Think about this the grass in the gold/my mod was at 256x256 - which 192kb per grass texture, and there are at least 8. This still looks too large for the area that the texture covers. So I'd like to increase that to least 256x512 (384kb), or even better at 512x512! That's 768kb per tetxure! Hmm that's 6 megs already for 8 grass tetxures alreay! You do the sums Also you with some scenarios with lots of different vehicles, lots of buildings, and the largest map size. Add some transparent smoke, a smoke screen or two, some fog, a few transparent buildings. Try panning around with a 32 meg Geforce DDR, I bet you even a Geforce will stutter. Ok a Fast CPU will help for sure, with the AI and number crunching, but with a 3d game like CM, ya still need some fill rate to cope with the above scenario. I want no limitations with my CM gaming Well as far as my bank account will allow. ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 I have a voodoo 3 3000, when it goes out of date im gonna get about £300 out of the bank....... and spend it on carlsberg and a subscription to moviemax, you guys are a bit over the top on upgrading, you dont need a new graphics card every 10 minutes when the one you have will run anything currently on the market, next time you sit down with your pc with the card you just bought for your hard earned cash think what else you could have bought with it, And also, theres a lot of people who spend 100s on upgrading and then moan that they cant afford games, you can get 5 good games or more for the price of the newest super card that is the best thing ever since pennali pens! I like the look of the new athlon tho ------------------ This is my rifle, this is my gun. This ones for killing, this ones a tasty alternative to turkey at christmas..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolColJ: Think about this the grass in the gold/my mod was at 256x256 - which 192kb per grass texture, and there are at least 8. This still looks too large for the area that the texture covers. So I'd like to increase that to least 256x512 (384kb), or even better at 512x512! That's 768kb per tetxure! Hmm that's 6 megs already for 8 grass tetxures alreay! You do the sums. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Does anyone beside me think O.V.E.R.K.I.L.L. ? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolColJ: I want no limitations with my CM gaming<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sigh. I guess I can't argue with this one. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 26, 2000 Author Share Posted April 26, 2000 ROFL Its a posibility ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 I think a 16 MB video card is good enough. Personally I think that anyone with less than a 400 Mhz PC would be mad to buy a 32 MB card (unless they are thinking of slotting the 32 Mb Card into a new motherboard and CPU which they intend to get soon.) In any case CM downsamples texture quality if you don't have enough on-card RAM... I have a 32 MB card now (since I'm doing the upgrade portion by portion) and it has made veruy little difference to the frames per second speed in CM. Obviously my AMD K6-2 333 is now the major bottleneck and that leads me to say that I think what CoolCOl J is talking about is only an issue for those with top oft he range systems ( in the 800 to 1 Gig range). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dschugaschwili: Does anyone beside me think O.V.E.R.K.I.L.L. ? Dschugaschwili<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm with ya! Reality Check! Don't get me wrong, CoolColJ, your textures are nice, but then again as I've said before concerning other things, where do you draw the line and say "good enough"? In game development, the developers NEVER design a game for top of the line CPUs or 3D cards, they design them for about the below average CPU and card out there. Right now, I'd say the average CPU speed is about between 350-550 MgHz. So a below average speed is around the 250 mark, wouldn't you say? For developers to design a game that would only work on a Athlon 850 with a GeForce 2 card right now, would be suicide in marketing and whatever. Only a select few people would be able to play it. And sales would be extremely low. Hell, especially after that "the 133 MgHz" thread when we found out that alot of people here are still running CPUs in that range. What good will it do if you release a texture set that nobody but the cream of the crop can use? I mean think about it. I'm running a 32MB TNT2 Ultra right now in a Celeron 433 and it runs everything quite nicely. I'm running the new Klingon Academy Multiplayer Demo and it runs it just fine with full details and at 1024x768 res. It's a little jumpy at first until every thing gets loaded, but then that only takes about 10 seconds. ------------------ "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." --Jedi Master Yoda [This message has been edited by Ol' Blood & Guts (edited 04-26-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfe Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 From Anand's review: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"NVIDIA’s GeForce 2 GTS does support Full Scene Anti-Aliasing ... What’s the catch? Unfortunately, FSAA in Direct3D will not work in all Direct3D games. Instead, because of the way NVIDIA implemented the FSAA, most of today’s games can’t take advantage of the GeForce 2 GTS’ FSAA. Future DirectX 8 games should be able to do just fine, as NVIDIA’s solution will be fully implemented in DX8, but until then, you’ll have to live without FSAA in Direct3D on the GeForce 2 GTS or go after the Voodoo5, which does support it now. This is a bit of a disappointment since most racing games, flight simulators, and RPGs are in fact Direct3D games not designed with NVIDIA’s FSAA implementation in mind." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1231&p=24 So does anyone know if CM is one of those lucky D3D games that does FSAA with the GeForce? I don't suppose anyone has a pre-production V5 to get some CM FSAA screenies either? With any luck, Reverend will have a review up tomorrow that actually contains something other than just Q3A. :-P Though I don't anticipate any CM shots in his review either. :-( http://www.voodooextreme.com/reverend/Main.html - Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 27, 2000 Author Share Posted April 27, 2000 Fionn is correct - you really need a P3 600 coppermine minimum to get the most out of a Geforce 2 GST. Well OBG I myself own a TNT2 16 meg card now, so I'm not limiting myself to a smaller video card That will be the bassline minmum. Anyway as Fionn pointed out, if you lack the v-ram, CM will reduce the textures sizes down anyway And your right about the developers bit, but hey that's why mods come out Wolfe you need to surf a bit more There are plenty of Voodoo FSAA piccies from other games around. Here are a few - http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/3dfx_voodoo5_5500/4.shtml Ok the Voodoo 5500 will be pretty good value, but its technology is old hat. But its a solid card for CM for sure, on the pace with a Geforce DDr and has FSAA to boot, though there is a bit of a performance hit. There is also a new ATI card competing with the Geforce 2 GTS, so hang on folks its starting to get exiting. The point is, I had a Geforce a while back, but while it was quicker than my TNT2 (even when it was overclocked), it wasn't a lot quicker. Now the Geforce 2 and its competitors are finally what I'm after. Its always better to skip a generation of cards to get the quantum leap in performance. Believe me, you'll be mighty impressed when you jump from a TNT2 or earlier to a Geforce 2. AFter playing with a evaluation Leadtek Geforce 2 model at my local distributor, I have no doubt! I want this baby! ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Tiger Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 do not spend your hole money only for a faster card.. dont forget the display.. imho the most important thing in computer hardware. The money were you needed for glasses, if you become older, you can spend also for a better display. My choice...iiyama 22" 130khz 1600x1240 104Hz I love this monster..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted April 27, 2000 Author Share Posted April 27, 2000 Well I have a Sony e200 FD - so flat and so damn sharp the best 17 inch monitor I've ever seen, but its a bit small, I'm looking to get the 19 inch brother the G400 FD - SOny monitors just look great and so sharp too. ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 Hey OB&G, you haven't seen the Ultima 9 reviews have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolColJ: There is also a new ATI card competing with the Geforce 2 GTS, so hang on folks its starting to get exiting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> CoolColJ, This new ATI card is not really competing with the GeForce 2 GTS (or the Voodoo4/5 series) because while the new Voodoo5 / GeForce2 cards will be available in May (if everything goes right for both companies), you won't be able to buy a Radeon256 card for a couple of months. I don't think you'll want to wait that long before you can play CM without limitations. Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted May 1, 2000 Share Posted May 1, 2000 Im gonna get me a 32" screen and a triboard with 1000mhz athlon chips and one of those £2000 workstation graphics cards, a studio quality soundcard with 5 floorstanding speakers and ill get me a big leather swivel chair...... im gonna sit down, turn the rig on full, and play wolfenstein 3d...... my point, you dont need it all, do the best with what you have.... its like buying really expensive alloys for a 86 ford escort, the performance increase is minimal to the price paid... it would be pretty kewl tho, wouldnt it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted May 1, 2000 Author Share Posted May 1, 2000 Yeah but as they say, one man's poison is another man's yummy I've been spending all my money on music equipment, so its about time I got some new stuff for my PC Man it deserves it, I do everything on it. Some people here complain about spending money of a PC, and try to skimp as much as they can. Who are they kidding? I spend 50% of my time on one, why wouldn't I spend a lot of money on it? CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ol' Blood & Guts Posted May 1, 2000 Share Posted May 1, 2000 As I've said above, I have a Celeron-433. I started out with 64MB SDRAM--upgraded to 128MB. I started out with a 8MB Intel 3D card--upgraded to a D-Viper 770 32MB TNT2 Ultra. I have a SB PCI64 sound card--after asking the question on here about sound cards, I'm seriously thinking about ordering a SBLive! X-Gamer. I think my motherboard can handle a Celeron-500, but I'd like to wait until CM2 to updgrade again. Probabaly go with at least an Athlon 850 by then. We'll just have to see what the prices are like then. I ain't spending over $2000 for a computer, I'll tell you that. ------------------ "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." --Jedi Master Yoda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted May 1, 2000 Share Posted May 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CoolColJ: I've been spending all my money on music equipment, so its about time I got some new stuff for my PC Man it deserves it, I do everything on it. Some people here complain about spending money of a PC, and try to skimp as much as they can. Who are they kidding? I spend 50% of my time on one, why wouldn't I spend a lot of money on it? CCJ<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well said!!! If you collect minatures or play golf or tennis, like to eat Lobster, have a few girlfriends, or travel to name a few.... how expensive will they turn out to be? I spend 15 hours a day on a computer and more than half is playing. So if you buy a $3,000 rig a year for 4 hours a day ( or 15 like me) that is only $2 an hour. IMHO, that is cheap entertainment. Oh well Ray ------------------ MantaRays 5 Pages Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted May 1, 2000 Share Posted May 1, 2000 well, if you put it like that, i suppose youre right, but, cable tv is cheaper..... cannabis is seriously good value and deserves a good look..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider Posted May 1, 2000 Share Posted May 1, 2000 a few girlfriends.......hhmmmmm whats your secret, im looking to trade in mine for a slimmer model, everything is thinner these days, I dont skimp on my pc, i skimp on everything..... dont say you werent warned...... ) [This message has been edited by spider (edited 05-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard III Posted May 2, 2000 Share Posted May 2, 2000 Hi guys, here is an elaborate discussion of the merits of the V5500 FSAA and the GeForce 2's FSAA: http://www.hardwarezone.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/022747.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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