Oh my god..... Tom did it again: NEW STARTUP PICTURE FOR CM

[Guest Tom]

Hi there ,

Inspired by the positive feedback on my CM CD-Cover design I started to do an alternative startscreen for CM ( picture was taken from the LaGleize scenario by Eric McAufille by using textures from the Gunslinger mod ). I also enclosed new wooden/metallic menuebuttons. This screen was made for all who think that an CM in-game-graphic screen better fits to the spirit of the game or simply believe that it´s no fun to see Hitler and Mussolini waving from pc screens ( sorry Gunslinger , no offense meant....but I couldn´t resist ).

The new files can be downloaded via the " modifications " section from my homepage.

Regards

Thomas

P.S.: The picture above is just a small compressed bad coloured PREVIEW...don´t use it....

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Visit Toms Combat Mission HQ ( bilingual site ) at http://home.germany.net/101-77027/CM/TCMHQ.html

[M Hofbauer]

not bad. I'll give it a try.

maybe you should have let the gun point to the side, then the muzzle break would've looked more favorably...maybe the whole KT should be tilted a little bit more so that we see the side - then the abschleppseile would look more realistic, too...

just an idea

mfG

M.Hofbauer

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"Do want a game that works???" (CPT Stransky)

[Guest SS Peiper]

Tom it looks Great!!!

SS Peiper

[thomasj]

Looks great man!!!!!

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom:

Hi there ,

Inspired by the positive feedback on my CM CD-Cover design I started to do an alternative startscreen for CM ( picture was taken from the LaGleize scenario by Eric McAufille by using textures from the Gunslinger mod ).

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BAH that Tiger II is NOT dug in . Great job Thomas.

Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

[Maximus]

What's a Tiger II?

The correct name is a PzIVB (Konigs Tiger) or King Tiger.

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All that sleeps, awakens...

All that awakens, hungers...

All that hungers, feeds...

[Nitsud42]

Dang Tom!

Thanks for all your efforts! I made your CD covers (sure beats an empty Jewel case! <G>)

I now am the proud owner of our new opening (on both my home and ehem... work computer!)

Thanks again for adding to the pleasure that CM already brings.

[TankDawg]

hmmmm,

What a surprise, the last vestage of Allied units being showcased in CM(Cover photo of Sherman and troops) gets replaced by German Tank.

Why don't we just remove all Allied units, user names and everything else from this product and discussion board that is not German or SS.

I will start. I am no longer "TankDawg," just call me "PanzerDawg."

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Jeff Newell

TankDawg

[Ted]

I'll change it over tonight.

Maximus, don't you mean "PzVIB"

[Pham911]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TankDawg:

hmmmm,

What a surprise, the last vestage of Allied units being showcased in CM(Cover photo of Sherman and troops) gets replaced by German Tank.

Why don't we just remove all Allied units, user names and everything else from this product and discussion board that is not German or SS.

I will start. I am no longer "TankDawg," just call me "PanzerDawg."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You do realise that Germany was involved in WWII, and played a semi-important role in the theater of operations that CM covers?

That and the fact that nobody is forcing you to change the graphics means that it's not quite an anti-allied party in here. Not quite.

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

What's a Tiger II?

The correct name is a PzIVB (Konigs Tiger) or King Tiger.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh whats a King Tiger? .

King Tiger, Konigs Tiger, etc; were NEVER used as an German 'official' designation. They are the 'popular' names by which its most often refered to Ie, King Tiger or Konigs Tiger.

The more common designation in military vehichle study etc for the Tiger Ausf B would be Tiger II; Ie, Jentz refers to the Tiger Ausf.B as Tiger II frequently, in his books on the subject.

The 'official' designation was Pazerkampfwagen VI Tiger 8.8 cm *Sd.Kfz.182 Ausf.B.

* Sd.Kfz.267 & Sd.Kfz.268 were used to denote the Panzerbefehlswagen Tiger Ausf.B command varients.

Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

[This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 09-12-2000).]

[M Hofbauer]

John,

sorry but you're double wrong.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>King Tiger, Konigs Tiger, etc; were NEVER used as an German 'official' designation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First, it is no wonder it wasn't called "Konigs Tiger" because that is completely wrong spelling. It's a composita and it has the ö Umlaut, therefore if anything it's "Königstiger".

Second, yes it _was_ called Königstiger by the germans. It was also called Tiger II in the technical project phase. Later, the suggestive name "Königstiger" was officially bestowed upon it (just like the MP 43/44 was given the suggestive name Sturmgewehr etc.), and the name stuck with the troops. Even the Wehrmacht used it in their TO&E of losses and equipment.

I don't know if "King Tiger" or "Royal Tiger" is a real animal name in english, but in german, it is the official species word for the Bengal Tiger, a rather large "version" of a tiger.

yours sincerely,

M.Hofbauer

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"Do want a game that works???" (CPT Stransky)

[M Hofbauer]

PanzerDawg,

I see your point. However, some Sherman isn't very impressive, a Jumbo Sherman just looks funny, not impressive, and that feeling of amusement is even stronger if you used, say, a Churchill.

That is not to say there is no room for allied motifs. If we move away from the BiGTanks! - attitude and search among other cover "models", I think the british paratrooper camo would look cool, or a Greyhound, or a Chaffee in scattered trees, or a Hellcat hull down, lining up on some distant german target...

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[Guest Tom]

Hi TankDawg ,

even if I am not so familiar with the english language... I hope your message was wrote in a kind of "ironic sense ".

I am far away from admiring ANYTHING that has to do with nazi symbolism (!) There is only ONE reason why I choosed the " King Tiger " for the opening screen: this tank really looks IMPRESSIVE - in a technical sense - and has a very detailed cammo texture.You - hopefully - get the impression that the CM in-game-graphics can stand against paintings or even photos. That´s all about the picture.No political message or whatever.Period.

Regards

Tom ( who also plays the Allies in CM battles..especially the Brits and the Poles )

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TankDawg:

hmmmm,

What a surprise, the last vestage of Allied units being showcased in CM(Cover photo of Sherman and troops) gets replaced by German Tank.

Why don't we just remove all Allied units, user names and everything else from this product and discussion board that is not German or SS.

I will start. I am no longer "TankDawg," just call me "PanzerDawg."

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Visit Toms Combat Mission HQ ( bilingual site ) at http://home.germany.net/101-77027/CM/TCMHQ.html

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

John,

sorry but you're double wrong.

Second, yes it _was_ called Königstiger by the germans. It was also called Tiger II in the technical project phase. Later, the suggestive name "Königstiger" was officially bestowed upon it (just like the MP 43/44 was given the suggestive name Sturmgewehr etc.), and the name stuck with the troops. Even the Wehrmacht used it in their TO&E of losses and equipment.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The official use of "Königstiger" appears in one instance & only in one 'official' report. *As in the January 1945 monthly production report from the Speer ministry. This was never accepted as an 'official' designation by Inspekteur der Panzertruppen or Waffamt etc.

As of 16.03.43 the 'official' designation from Tiger H3, was changed to Tiger II. On 06.02.43 an order from Wa Pruf 6 officialy changed the Tiger II 'official' designation to Pazerkampfwagen VI Tiger 8.8 cm Sd.Kfz.182 Ausf.B

Now I can accepet "Königstiger" as an sugestive refrence as with King Tiger etc, the question was dealing with the "Official" designation not sugestive titles bestowed by troops, or incorectly used in reports etc.

Now if your disputing that the official designation assigned & accepted by the office of the Inspekteur der Panzertruppen, Wa Pruf 6, Waffenamt: Pazerkampfwagen VI Tiger 8.8 cm Sd.Kfz.182 Ausf.B is incorrect then please provide me with the apropriate official material & I will accordingly change my opinion.

Regards, John Waters

*See: Jentz Thomas, Doyle Hillary, Sarson Peter. KingTiger Heavy Tank 1942 - 1945 p 16.

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

[This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 09-12-2000).]

[TankDawg]

Hi Tom,

Yes, it was 'ironic sense.' And no, there is no NAZI symbolism in showing a King Tiger.

I have just commented a couple of times on this list's obsession with the German War Machine.

I mean, look at the argument going on in this thread about what to call a PZKW IVe.

Cracks me up.

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Jeff Newell

TankDawg

[M Hofbauer]

John,

the name Königstiger was bestowed upon the Tiger II vehicles when the first pre-production vehicles were handed over to the Waffenamt in November 1943, 4 weeks after the wooden mockup had been finished in October 1943.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now if your disputing that the official designation assigned by the office of the Inspekteur der Panzertruppen, Pazerkampfwagen VI Tiger 8.8 cm Sd.Kfz.182 Ausf.B is incorrect<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

wait a minute. don't start twisting my words in an anal-retentive style. I never said that. I was merely responding to your claim that "Konigs Tiger was NEVER used as an official german designation".

The full Typbezeichnung incl. Sonderkraftfahrzeugsnummern were never used in such inane things as loss reports etc., where the King Tigers were sometimes simply added up to the "Tiger" figure or, if reported seperately, under "Königstiger", sometimes as Tiger II.

It seems that you are unaware how I meant the suggestive name reference. "Suggestivname" is rather a terminus technicus for names that the nazis conceived for a wide range of concepts and objects, such as the Volkswagen, the Volkssturm, the Sturmgewehr, the Volksgewehr etc. Many of them were personally invented by Hitler, who had some psychological feel in this field. I am not sure if Königstiger was introduced by himself, but given his strong personal involvement with the development of the vehicle it doesn't seem unlikely.

My sources are of little value to you since they are all german.

besides, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>only in one 'official' report<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

see - you already disproved your own former statement yourself. thank you

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"Do want a game that works???" (CPT Stransky)

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TankDawg:

Hi Tom,

I have just commented a couple of times on this list's obsession with the German War Machine.

I mean, look at the argument going on in this thread about what to call a PZKW IVe.

Cracks me up.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well Dawg how bout we just relable every German tank in CM to a Tiger so they can be incorectly identified to match Allied reports ,of the era & every Allied tank can be a Sherman.

Its got nothing to do with obsession or glamourizing the German war machine, it has to do with historical accuracy, which some ppl consider important to wargameing & some dont, But to each his own.

Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

[M Hofbauer]

sorry double post

[This message has been edited by M Hofbauer (edited 09-12-2000).]

[M Hofbauer]

hey TankDawg,

"crack me up" - you start to sound just like good ol' Doc Brian.

but one thing really puzzles me -

what is PZKW IVe ?

Personen- und Zulieferkraftwagen maybe?

or do you mean the good ol' stumpy Pz IV Ausführung E ?

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"Do want a game that works???" (CPT Stransky)

[PzKpfw 1]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by M Hofbauer:

John,

the name Königstiger was bestowed upon the Tiger II vehicles when the first pre-production vehicles were handed over to the Waffenamt in November 1943, 4 weeks after the wooden mockup had been finished in October 1943.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

See above Post concerning "official" designation dates & names.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

see - you already disproved your own former statement yourself. thank you

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have I? I, then you did the same for me . I highlighted the 1 piece of evidence that suported your stance on official use of Königstiger & countered that the use of Königstiger was incorrect & recognized as an error. .

Yes I think we have diferent definitions of Suggestive as well as official. Troops in the feild frequently call items diferent names other then their official designation Ie, Königstiger but that does not change the official designation given that item in its proper use.

The contention was that the official designation for the Tiger Ausf.B was "Königstiger" this is incorect as I have shown.

I'm not going to comment on the anal retentive aspect as that would be akin to the pot calling the kettle black .

Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

[This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 09-12-2000).]

[M Hofbauer]

LOL John...

yes TankDawg maybe you should try cc4 without the 2nd patch - all the armor is conveniently named "big tank", "medium tank" etc. Should be just the right thing for you.

Sorry but it's people with the attitude that you display that ruin the wargame market. Does "mass-appeal" and "dumbed-down" ring a bell? if not check these concepts out I'm sure you'll like them.

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[David Aitken]

M Hofbauer wrote:

> However, some Sherman isn't very impressive, a Jumbo Sherman just looks funny, not impressive, and that feeling of amusement is even stronger if you used, say, a Churchill.

It's because of this attitude that the only armoured vehicles the average person knows about from the Second World War - if any - are the big German tanks. I've been interested in the war for a long time, but I'm still finding out about vehicles I'd never heard of before. I don't find pictures of Tiger tanks particularly exciting, but I'm fascinated by the lesser-known vehicles - German armoured cars, British tanks, etcetera. If I did a splash screen like Tom's, I'd probably use a Churchill or a Daimler SC.

> I don't know if "King Tiger" or "Royal Tiger" is a real animal name in english, but in german, it is the official species word for the Bengal Tiger, a rather large "version" of a tiger.

Aha, that question has been at the back of my mind for a while. It struck me that German tanks were named after wild cats, so what the hell is a King Tiger? The problem is, it's been translated literally into English. How interesting - we should actually be calling it a Bengal Tiger... I'll have to do that from now on. =)

David

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They lost all of their equipment and had to swim in under machine gun fire. As they struggled in the water, Gardner heard somebody say, "Perhaps we're intruding, this seems to be a private beach."

[M Hofbauer]

dagnabbit...yet another double post

[This message has been edited by M Hofbauer (edited 09-12-2000).]

[M Hofbauer]

John,

I too think that the problem lies in our differing definitions of what an "official" designation is.

That is, my definition-encompassed volume is more extensive than yours, and it includes army reports etc. as being "official".

to illustrate:

Assume I would drive a Nissan Sunny 1.6l Coupé PKW (POV).

a) I would say official designation is, among others, "Nissan Sunny Coupé".

You would insist that the only official designation, as given in my registration papers, would be "Personenkraftwagen geschlossen, schadstoffarm NISSAN (J) Typ B12" (~person motor car closed, emission-reduced Nissan (J) type B12).

Do you think that when I write a verdict I will call it a) or ? Do you think that any official government branch when referring to this vehicle will use ?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm not going to comment on the anal retentive aspect as that would be akin to the pot calling the kettle black<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL....good call

btw: am a bit puzzled by your signature...I rarely notice any typos (surely less than in mine because I rarely check for them at all) in your posts so what is the matter?

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"Do want a game that works???" (CPT Stransky)