Maybe? Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Thank you for taking the time to read my post in the first place. I would like to submit a quite bizarre, if not outright illusionist trick from the AI. I have been playing mostly as the Germans. This is the first time I see anything of that sort. I have found absolutely not rational explanation for this issue. You guys HAVE to help me here. I am currently completing the Operation Drive to Mortain as the germans. I am now to the 5th battle. So far, I have managed to keep my 2 88 fully functional while I drew the AI artillery fire on the 75 antitank guns. So here I am, during the setup phase. I have now being reinforced with 2 hummels and one panther; I am going on the offensive this battle. Therefore, I have no need to expose my 2 88 to artillery fire, since I absolutely want to keep them for the last battle (don't give me any spoiler here ) I hid my first 88 in the midst of woods,far in the rear and well hidden behind a layer of Bocage. I cant see anything; my field of view is entirely obstructed. My second 88 goes right behind a 2 story high building; again, no line of sight whatsoever. I start the first round, move my tanks. When I come to the third round, I see mortar fire falling around the 88 hidden in the woods (surely area fire, since it doesnt seem too accurate). I say " hell, what's this?" So I start the whole setup phase over, since I definitely want to keep my 88s alive. So I move the 88 that came under fire directly behind another house located behind a slope in the rear of the map. I am telling myself "try to get it now boy". Believe it or not, the damn AI started launching mortar and 105 at the same 3rd round. Now this is amazing. So I go back to the first round and decide to conduct and extensive sweep, using my tanks and infantry. I search everywhere, including adjacent places to my 88s, since it is the first and most logical place any US troops could "see" them. Nothing...zippo. I started the same battle 6 times, conducted the most thorough sweeps the SS has ever done . I have placed my batteries in woods, behind houses, behind 2 layers of Bocage... I have ordered my 150mm artillery spotters to fire at places offering cover. The only US troops I found, on the third round, were in the other end of the map, trying to assemble a weak attack. No spotters or any troops could possibly ever see my 88s hidden in the far rear, behind slopes and houses. What is going on? NO elevated terrain, extensive sweeps, different 88 locations and so on and so forth prevent me to come to the logical reason: "Well the AI "guessed" were you were". That is utterly impossible, unless he's hiding in a submarine in the nearby river. I am confused since I is the first time I see "magics" performed by the artillery AI. I have tried any possible methods to find a logical answer, but my 6 tries negate any "luck" factor. Or the AI is the luckiest **** I have seen in 10 wonderful years of wargaming. Any suggestion? Thank you very much for your patience and dedication to help others. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Well, there is always the obvious thing to check. Are you playing with FULL Fog of war? Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission CMHQ-Annex Host of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybeq Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Are you saying that no matter where you place your '88's the AI drops arty on them in turn 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Any Allied aircraft? ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Maybe?, How bout warning us of spoilers first? Not all of us have played that scenario. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe? Posted October 8, 2000 Author Share Posted October 8, 2000 Hi guys! Thanks for your help. Here's the update concerning this incredible issue. I finally caught the 3 artillery spotters; ALL of them were way back hidden in woods, their views entirely blocked by a slope. Guess what? I caught them at exactly the same time as they were firing their rounds. Conclusion? I killed them all 3 and the scenario ended?!?!?! Saying Axis "total victory". Now this is totally incredible!!! So he had really "guessed" all the time!!!! 6 Tests performed and each time he started firing at the 3 round... Totally impossible to guess right all the time. Moreover, each time I performed new tests, the AI always kept firing rounds at the SAME 88; even though I deliberately put the other 88 in the open. My conclusion? Bled to death, the AI probably tried to "even it out" using such a tactic. What a nice magic trick the AI pulled... Marc (ohh and I forgot...no airplanes on either sides) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 How about Madmatt's question regarding Fog of War? For instance, could you see all the enemy's units wherever they were on the map, even if you had no units of your own with a valid line of sight to them? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe? Posted October 8, 2000 Author Share Posted October 8, 2000 Thanks for your concern Michael: it was FULL fog of war. Thanks Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Let me again go on record as saying that the Ai, does not CHEAT, or EVEN OUT anything. Are you sure the enemy spotters did not have perhaps have a sound contact with your 88 position? Was the 88 Hiding or in Ambush mode? When the scenario ended did you view the map to see if perhaps there was another enemy unit near your gun position? You said that the enemy FO's had no Line of Sight but did you confirm that by placing one of your own units at all three FO's locations? If you really want to ensure that there was no valid LOS to your position you could load the map into the editor and use the LOS tool from the positions the FO's were in to asertain if they had any Line of Sight. Madmatt [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 10-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe? Posted October 8, 2000 Author Share Posted October 8, 2000 Thanks for your patience Madmatt. The distance between the spotters and my 88s must have been 1500 meters. It was of course in hiding mode. As I said, when the scenario ended, NO UNIT was left alive. No LOS was possible to achieve for any units other than directly adjacent to my 88s (right behind a house!). And as I said, from where I caught the 3 spotters (far, far away), there is no way on earth he could have seen my 88s. The more I think of it, the more I figure it probably was a glitch of some sort... Thanks Madmatt and others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmoredAmoeba Posted October 8, 2000 Share Posted October 8, 2000 Well this is certainly interesting. Would it be possible to post the saved game on the web, or email it to Madmatt and have him post it? Rather than conjecture what is going on, it would be more informative to see it first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basebal351 Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maybe?: My second 88 goes right behind a 2 story high building; again, no line of sight whatsoever. I start the first round, move my tanks. When I come to the third round, I see mortar fire falling around the 88 hidden in the woods (surely area fire, since it doesnt seem too accurate). I say " hell, what's this?" So I start the whole setup phase over, since I definitely want to keep my 88s alive. Marc<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think it was the AI that was cheating.... Thanks, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epée Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 bump - this needs some serious investigation. Epée Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfgardner Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maybe?: The more I think of it, the more I figure it probably was a glitch of some sort... Thanks Madmatt and others<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Did you notice the AI firing at any other locations? A good tactic would be to recon by fire those areas you might suspect enemy forces to be located. Having played the Americans in this operation, I found myself dumping arty on any likely area. Once, I even dumped it behind a house and, lo and behold, got an 88! My game was PBEM, not against the AI, but a very similar circumstance occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted October 9, 2000 Share Posted October 9, 2000 Bah ! You've failed to tell your units to be on the look out for the most dastardly, stealthy recon force in the game: the Hamster Commandos. These small furry lil guys can infiltrate with ease and are damned hard to detect. Check the 88s again there's probably one down the barrel attaching demo charges. -john [This message has been edited by Tiger (edited 10-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old_Airman Posted October 10, 2000 Share Posted October 10, 2000 If you want to learn about the Mortain battle that you are fighting, go to this webpage. Very interesting! My PBEM partner and I contacted the LTC who constructed some of the Mortain web stuff. He responded to us and sent along a rough draft from the book he is writing on the battle. It is absolutely fascinating. http://www.737thtankbattalion.org/ ------------------ We few, we happy few, we band of brothers. Shakespeare (Henry V) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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