Question about sharpshooters...

[dannall]

Exactly how potent are snipers in CM? The manual doesn't say anything about them and I have a couple to deploy but don't know how fragile, or deadly they are in the game...

Any help?

[Chupacabra]

Sharpshooters can be very effective if used well.They're no more durable or fragile than any other one-man team would be. If they get shot, they die.

[Bullethead]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Exactly how potent are snipers in CM?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very. They are supernaturally accurate, able to kill sprinting grunts and stampeding trucks/jeeps at 400m and 90^ deflection. Thus, the have little problem hitting closer, more stationary targets. They are very good at picking off AFV commanders and grunt leaders. Plus their fire, even when they miss, has a suppression effect out of all proportion to the number of bullets in the air, due to the target's knowledge that a sniper is aiming at HIM personally.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The manual doesn't say anything about them and I have a couple to deploy but don't know how fragile, or deadly they are in the game...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The best way to deploy them is in places where they don't have to deal with enemy grunts walking right up on them. Being only 1 man firing only the occasional single shot, they are very hard to spot, but if an enemy squad gets close, it's good-bye Mr. Sniper.

Snipers also make good scouts to detect and delay the enemy on otherwise covered avenues of approach. And in the attack they are excellent at picking off pesky MG, mortar, and ATG/IG crews. However, they are a lot easier to spot when they are moving, so using cover and sneak or crawl orders seems to be the best plan.

Snipers are only 1 man so it only takes 1 casualty to wipe them out. And as a type of grunt they are vulnerable to every weapon on the battlefield. Thus, their main defense is stealth and as noted above, they are quite hard to see if deployed correctly. But a spotted sniper is usually a dead sniper.

As to using them, it's generally best NOT to give them specific target orders if there is a choice of enemy units out there. Only target something if it's worth losing the sniper over. Otherwise, just let the AI decide what to shoot at and when to do it. The AI takes into account the likelihood of the sniper being detected, so won't shoot if it thinks it's too dangerous. This can lead to frustration at times, as you wonder why the sniper isn't shooting, but the AI is much better at determining the odds of the sniper being seen if it fires, so just let the man do his job .

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-Bullethead

It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman

[Holman]

One thing to know about sharpshooters is that they are good at picking their own shots. Generally, if you put them in a good location, you don't need to assign targets for them.

On the other hand, when it's obvious that your sniper has been spotted (i.e. the enemy starts firing on his location), sneak him off to a new location.

(Oops! Bullethead posted just before I did. Quicker on the draw, I guess.)

[This message has been edited by Martyr (edited 08-02-2000).]

[Kingfish]

In a current PBEM game i hid a sniper in heavy woods. After a while 2 teams of arty FOs came thru and the sniper got them both. 4 shots and 30-40% of my opponents firepower was eliminated. Not bad

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The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive

[Moriarty]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead:

Only target something if it's worth losing the sniper over. Otherwise, just let the AI decide what to shoot at and when to do it. The AI takes into account the likelihood of the sniper being detected, so won't shoot if it thinks it's too dangerous.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is very good advice. The one time I did actually target a mortar team, the sniper was very effective in taking it out and the team and my opponent never knew where the fire was coming from ... he was hiding in the high bocage.

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"Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change?" — Oddball

"Crap." — Moriarty

[Guest Mortiis]

How do you know if your sniper took out a leader in a squad?

[Chupacabra]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mortiis:

How do you know if your sniper took out a leader in a squad?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think that individual squads have leaders, do they? The only units I've noticed with distinct leaders are vehicle units. In which case, if your sharpshooter takes a shot, the vehicle buttons and either stops dead in its tracks or starts bumbling around like a panicky schoolgirl, chances are you've killed its commander.

[Fionn]

In a current PBEM I placed one sniper along an enemy route of advance. It turns out the enemy pushed an armoured company through there.. I used the sniper to kill the TC of the recon M8 ( thus making it useless in its recon role) and then proceeded to pick off a Sherman 76 commander and an M10 commander.

After that ALL US tanks buttoned up and, 5 turns later are still buttoned up. I count this buttoning up to be directly responsible for the fact that when I sprung my tank ambush my 2 Panthers managed to take out 7 Allied vehicles within 2 turns and had VERY few shots fired back at them.

The particular sniper who killed the TCs is dead now BUT he managed to button an entire armoured company, picked out the 3 highest value targets in range, crippled the enemy's most potent AT platforms and set the stage for an excellent ambush.

In fact, the enemy is still buttoned even though he is now well hidden from my tanks. A smart precaution cause he knows I have a few more teams lurking around

[tss]

Bullethead wrote:

Very. They are supernaturally accurate, able to kill sprinting grunts and stampeding trucks/jeeps at 400m and 90^ deflection.

Actually, there were some snipers who could consistently hit moving targets at 400 meters. Admittedly, they were very rare and usually wouldn't be found in the middle of a heated combat. There were exceptions to that rule, though. For example, Finnish Simo Häyhä fought in many counter attacks before being seriously wounded at Kollaa 1940.

Häyhä was a pretty exceptional sniper. As far as I know, he was the only top sniper in any army who didn't use telescopic sights. His reason was that with open sights he could keep his head lower and there was no possibility of reflecting sunlight giving his position off. And he could hit a man's head at 400 meters without telescopes. (Before the war Häyhä won just about all major shooting tournaments in Finland).

Häyhäs official kill figure is 542 but that is seriously exaggerated. Nobody knows (not even he himself) the actual figure but there were at least 240 confirmed kills, with at least 50 before he started counting. (Note that he served in front only in the Winter War and his active sniping period lasted for only about two months, giving an average of about 5 kills a day through the time. His most effective period was 21.-23.12.1939 when he killed 51 Red Army soldiers and wounded about 15 in three days.)

- Tommi

[Guest Pillar]

What is the minimum firing distance for snipers in CM?

[Chupacabra]

As far as I can tell, snipers don't have a minimum range per se. However, like with most TacAI decisions, if the sniper thinks that opening fire will be obviously dangerous or fatal, it won't take the shot. I've had hidden snipers refuse to open up on units 15-20m away.

[Fenris]

Ya they're pretty useful/scary.

Playing last night, routed defending German infantry in a small engagement when suddenly my M10's commander got taken out....I watched the replay 5 times trying to see what happened, one second he was there, the next the M10's shocked with one man down.

Didn't end up finding him until the enemy surrended and I was able to browse the map.

Reg's

Fen

[Bullethead]

Mortiis said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How do you know if your sniper took out a leader in a squad?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is why the suppression value of snipers is so high against a squad, considering only 1 rifle bullet fired. It either takes out or freaks out the squad leader.

Tommi said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Actually, there were some snipers who could consistently hit moving targets at 400 meters. Admittedly, they were very rare and usually wouldn't be found in the middle of a heated combat. There were exceptions to that rule, though<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I agree on all points. And CM snipers do miss such targets at times. But they still have a very high success rate. Perhaps too high?

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-Bullethead

It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman