Tanks and Smoke

[Guest Robert Hall]

Asking a tank to fire smoke does not seem very successful or consistent for me.

I have had a number of situations where I have asked both a StuG or a Sherman to fire smoke - K key and Area fire. In all situations the tanks have been stationary at the beginning of the turn and not had any other target. The first time the tank fires smoke, it fires one round after about 10 seconds and the smoke appears maybe another 10 seconds later. So far so good. But no more smoke is fired for the remainder of the turn, neither does the tank fire anything else from its main gun that turn and it does not "acquire" any other targets. This has happened in Chance Encounter and Riesberg.

Then yesterday, again a Sherman fired 1 smoke round in one turn in Riesberg while stationary the whole turn. It had 15 smoke rounds in ammo storage. I needed more smoke, so the next turn I adjusted fire slightly and ordered more smoke. This time the Sherman fired 3 smoke rounds within the first 30 seconds, producing a nice curtain of smoke as I had wanted the first time, and then moved off as I also had Pause then Hunt commands on it.

Anybody else seen this inconsistency? Any ides how to get the curtain of smoke the first time rather than just a single smoke round?

Robert

[SimonFox]

I too have observed this inconsistency and have actually had 1 tank continue firing smoke while driving in the opposite direction (turret reversed), which I was happy about though I did not expect it, while others seem to fire only once though stationary.

[Huron]

A related question - does the tank actually try to create a smoke screen, when it fires multiple rounds?

I haven't tried this extensively, but it looks like the tank fires pretty much on the same spot. Any resulting screen seems more like the result of bad aiming than pre-planning.

Huron

[Moon]

The problem with smoke is this: when you order a tank to fire smoke, how does the tank commander know what you want? A smoke screen of three-four rounds? Or just one round to block that pillbox' LOS? What if an enemy tank is coming around the corner, but you really want that smoke round first to block the 88mm AT gun, and then engage the enemy tank?

Therefore, the TacAI basically decides how many smoke rounds will be fired. And Huron, you're right - from what I have seen in the game, the tank will fire smoke rounds until it hits the spot you have ordered it to fire at, i.e. if it misses the first or second time it will continue to fire. If, however, it hits dead on target with the first shot, it will stop firing smoke. Another reason for it to stop lying smoke is when a juicy target comes up. However, it seems that *some* randomness is built into this as well, which, frankly, simulates the tank commanders decision.

The question is also: would a tank fire smoke screens at all realistically or would it rather fire at single targets to obscure their LOS? Think about how few smoke rounds tanks have usually and how short tank smoke lasts. I think that if you want a smoke screen, mortars/artillery are the way to go. Tanks are great for blinding single targets (that pillbox, and MG nest etc.) but not really to provide screens.

Robert - there is a time delay after firing smoke obviously, since the tank has to reload. However, it WILL engage other targets - if there are any.

[Gary T]

Would it not be possible to designate an area? Say click where you would like the screen to begin and again where you would like it to end? After all in reality the commander would be ordered to just hit a single point. He would be ordered to block LOS across a road, field etc Obviously if a target that proves a danger to the tank hoves into view then it should stop laying down a smoke screen.

[not here]

Someday, I'd like to see an extended order capability for tanks. After all, they had radios (except Russkis). I'd like to issue an order that says "Gimme a couple smoke rounds in front of that MG in the treeline, then fire HE at the little stone building". This would basically be a little macro for the guy, who of course would abandon it at his discretion if a threat came up.

It would be nice to specify: Fire at this- then move there- then fire at that. I think this would simulate the guidance that a CO would issue a tank platoon over the wireless.

[Guest Robert Hall]

Thanks for your response Moon. I understand what you are saying which is why I like Gary's suggestion to somehow define an area you want smoked. In my earlier case I wanted an area smoked briefly, so I could move some troops through and one smoke round was simply not enough to block LOS.

[Guest coolguy101]

Robert Hall,

Do you by any chance have a son named Philip??????

THE END OR IS IT?

[Los]

Guys if you want a smoke screen use mortars or arty. If you want to fire a single point round to an exact spot to block an exeact enemy weapon's LOS to something then fire that one round.

Los

[Guest Robert Hall]

LOL Coolguy,

There must be thousands of Philip Halls around, but none of them is my son, sorry!

[Guest coolguy101]

just checking

and on the subject-

Correct me if i`m wrong but i thought tanks didn`t use smoke to make smoke screens often I always thought it was to block los from a target to engage at other targets.

[This message has been edited by coolguy101 (edited 12-10-99).]

[not here]

>i thought tanks didn`t use smoke to make smoke screens often I always thought it was to block los from a target to engage at other targets

Right... trouble is, if you designate a smoke target for the main gun, that's all you get for the next 60 seconds. Sometimes they seem to fire just once, others 2 or 3 rounds (probably related to the pause built in by other externals). One or two reasonably accurate smoke rounds, and the LOS mission is usually accomplished. Next target?

[Guest R Cunningham]

Does anybody know which tank guns actually had smoke rounds made for them?

I picked up a book on ammo from 10mm to 75mm and it had a smoke round for the 75 L/48 (Kwk 40) for example but not one for the 75 L/70 (Kwk 42) on the Panther. This is far from conclusive, but I can't find references to ammo load outs of smoke for any tanks.

[Major Tom]

Sometimes when tanks are spooked, usually when a big threat appears and fires a few glancing blows off your armour, they fire smoke to cover and move to retreat. This is what probably happenes when you see the AI doing this and being able to fire afterwards. Your tanks do it as well, trust me

It is a little annoying, having the Area fire and the Smoke fire for tanks taking up the full 60 seconds of action. Possibly your enemy will decide to sneak a tank, or a lone Schreck to attack your tank while it is busy doing an order which is now obsolete after the first 10 seconds of the turn.

[Fionn]

Actually the tank doesn't fire smoke for 60 seconds. It fires until it hits the area you selected with a smoke round.

I've had many tanks fire one round in the exact spot I wanted and then use HE or AP for the rest of the 60 second turn..

However with the crap tank crews in the beta demo it often takes them 3 or 4 rounds to hit the target and so they are occupied for 60 seconds.

[Berlichtingen]

Haveing just been promoted to the rank of SS-Rauchmeister by herr Goanna, I feel I must venture an answer to this question

Tanks do not lay smoke screens. As Fionn stated, they try to hit the spot you designated. If you want smoke screens, stick with arty and mortars.

[Fionn]

Tanks should ONLY be used to blind a VERY SPECIFIC enemy unit. They can blind a pillbox or a specific enemy MG which is bothering you.

In the case of a pillbox I think smoke is warranted since they're so hard to knock out but vs MGs and mortars etc I prefer to fire HE myself. I figure that HE is a little bit more "disturbing" to the MG team than a piffling little smoke shell dropping in front of it.

A big explosion right beside you and a screaming comrade has a way of throwing off your aim.

[Guest R Cunningham]

But the question still stands.

Which tanks could even fire main gun smoke rounds to start with?