Guest Silesian-jaeger Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 I am familiar w/ the bigger tank battles up to 1943 on the Eastern front. Can you tell me what the bigger tank battles of '44 were and when possible what units were involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Duquette Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 I would suggest taking a look at: Major General F.W. von Mellenthin's Panzer Battles. It was just rebulished recently by Ballentine Books and is available at a resonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devils Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 January/Ferruary '44 Korsun pocket. Also Debrecen, Oct. 44= 3 soviet tank corps destroyed. ------------------ I'm sorry, we haven't the facilities to take all of you prisoner. Was there anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 My personal favorite happened in the early days of Operation Bagration (late June 44). One German heavy tank (Tiger) Bn faced off against an entire Soviet Mech Corps. While it was destroyed in the process, the 30 or so Tigers accounted for more than 600 soviet tanks (principaly lend-lease shermans). I forgot the name of the battle off hand, but it is played up in Osprey's "Operation Bagration." WWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rommel22 Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 The best book for this is "Panzer battles" very good book. also Lost victories by Manstein, that book is more based on the Stalingrad story though, still good. Yep, Op. Bagration was probably the biggest operation in 1944 even bigger than the normandy invasion in the number of men and material. The normandy invasion overshadows this enormous Operation by the Reds against the Germs. This Operation completely anhilated Army group center, only small parts of it were left. Ths operation was probably the final blow to the Germans. If the Germans had any home of stoping the reds, that chance diminished thanx to this operation! I had a book on this Operation, but stupid me I lend the book to one of my friend, never gave it back, and moved aaahhh. ------------------ From the Das Reich book as said by a German soldier "when the Russians reached us, we opened fire, the first wave had no weapons. The second wave didn't either (fire fodder). The 3rd and 4th had weapons and opened fire on us. By this time we were low on ammo, but we drove them back." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted October 17, 2000 Share Posted October 17, 2000 Hi all I would suggest taking a look at: Major General F.W. von Mellenthin's Panzer Battles. It was just rebulished recently by Ballentine Books and is available at a resonable price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Boy Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 I concur with Sgt Steiner Osprey's BAGRATION 1944 is a good source for the 1944 East Front tank battles-Minsk had the 3rd Guards Tank Corps squaring off against the German 5th Panzer Division with the attached 505th Tiger Abteilung. After a week of fighting the Germans claimed 295 Soviet tanks of which 128 were credited to the Tigers of the 505th..with the 5th Panzer Division reduced from 125 tanks to 18 and all 29 Tiger tanks of the 505th out of action. It also covers the battles of Bobruisk and the Magnuszew Bridgehead. Lots of good info on some battles that are not well covered in other books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Huge tank battle supposedly in Poland's Studianki. Entire Herman Goering division was involved. The village was renamed after the battle to "Panzer Studianki" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silesian-jaeger Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Thanks for the great info guys. I can always count on ya. Looks like 'Panzer Battles' and 'Bagaration' are going on my shopping list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hussar Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Be wary of Mansteins "Lost Victories" guys. He was severely discredited in the 1950's, so much so that the 2nd edition of his book was edited to remove most of the untruths. The first edition is now a collectors item as a result and is worth big bikkies, I'm told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Try Armstrong Richard N. Red Army Tank Comanders It covers the Eastren Front exploits of Katukov, Bogdanov, Rybalko, Lelyushenko, Rotmistrov, & Kravchenko. Regards, John Waters [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 10-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Adder Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Hi killmore (and others), Some additional remarks on the HG Panzer Div. These Panzer troops had a uniform with a unique combination of the Luftwaffe chest eagle on the black Panzer uniform with Heer Totenkopf emblems on the collar - a combination worn exclusively by men of the Panzer units of the various Herman Göring formations during WWII. From Aug.44 to Jan.45 Fallschirm-Panzer-Division 1 Hermann Göring, fought in the Weichsel-area (Poland). The division had no supply units from Oct.44, and relied on Fallschirm-Panzerkorps Hermann Göring for supplies. It suffered heavy losses in Jan.45 by the Weichsel River, and by Apr.45 it was reduced to battle group strength only. Best regards, The Adder http://www.geocities.com/adder1972/ Sources: http://www.ww2.dk/ http://www.feldgrau.com/ ------------------ "The Germans are such a cruel and inhuman race; they have no word for fluffy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99: My personal favorite happened in the early days of Operation Bagration (late June 44). One German heavy tank (Tiger) Bn faced off against an entire Soviet Mech Corps. While it was destroyed in the process, the 30 or so Tigers accounted for more than 600 soviet tanks (principaly lend-lease shermans). I forgot the name of the battle off hand, but it is played up in Osprey's "Operation Bagration." WWB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The s.H.Pz.Abt 505 encounter was with 5th Guards, Tank Armies, '3rd Guards Tank Corps' "Sherman"s near Krupki railway station. My problem with the above is 3rd Guards Tank Corps had no Shermans for the 505th to engage Ie, as of 23.06.44 the Corps tank Brigades had : 3rd Guards Tank Brigade - 65 T-34-85 18th Guards Tank Brigade - 65 T-34-85 19th Guards Tank Brigade - 65 T-34-85 Additional fighting involved The 29th Tank Corps, trying to force the Berezina, at Studenka, 11th Guards Army then shows up near Kostritsa & 3rd Guards Mechanized Corps (who's Tank Brigades had 196 M4A2 Sherman as of 15.06.44 )who forced a crossing near Borisov. BTW 3rd Guards Mech was never destroyed during Bagration in fact it reached the Polish, Lithuanian border on 15.07.44 with 192 M4A2 Shermans & 31 SU's operational. Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945. [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 10-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Sorry, I was writing about something I read more than a year back from the office. I stand corrected. But any way you want to carry it, the stand of s.H.Pz. Abt. 505 would make a great operation for CM2. WWB PS: This being my 30th post I have now moved up to the status of member. My life is complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PzKpfw 1 Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99: Sorry, I was writing about something I read more than a year back from the office. I stand corrected. But any way you want to carry it, the stand of s.H.Pz. Abt. 505 would make a great operation for CM2. WWB PS: This being my 30th post I have now moved up to the status of member. My life is complete. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nothing to be sorry about, the account of the 505th at Krupki vs 'Shermans' is related in other books as well. I have always wondered if the units were just misidentified by German intel & ran into some 3rd Guards Mech Corps Shermans moveing through the area. The 505th War diary doesnt identify the types of the 16 tanks, one Company knocked out during the initial night attack at Krupki, either. Their ye go your elite now . Regards, John Waters ------------------ "We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field". Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945. [This message has been edited by PzKpfw 1 (edited 10-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCHRD Posted October 18, 2000 Share Posted October 18, 2000 Targul Frumos or something like that. Grossdeutshland shuts em down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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