109 Gustav Posted June 3, 2000 Share Posted June 3, 2000 Is anyone else tired of tanks or mortars running out of HE, and switching to smoke rounds? I'll be shelling a few infantry with 3 tanks, and one will run low on explosive rounds. Unless I can tell him to stop in time, he will start laying a smoke screen in front of the target. As a result, the other tanks can no longer shoot, and the infantry has a chance to get away. I think units should only use smoke to cover themselves, or as self-preservation, blinding a unit attacking them. ------------------ There is nothing certain about war except that one side won't win. -Ian Hamilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 3, 2000 Share Posted June 3, 2000 Never happened to me, yet. But kinda off topic... I mentioned this once and did not hear anything else. I have had the 81mm mortars in VoT never move and fire all of thier HE. Then when I tried to fire thier Smoke I was uable to. I had to move and fire the smoke directly. They were never under fire, and the HQ was (and was always) in control radius and in good order. I tested this twice and both mortars both times were unable to fire their remaining, smoke rounds indirectly but had no problem firing them directly. ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted June 3, 2000 Share Posted June 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton: Never happened to me, yet. But kinda off topic... I mentioned this once and did not hear anything else. I have had the 81mm mortars in VoT never move and fire all of thier HE. Then when I tried to fire thier Smoke I was uable to. I had to move and fire the smoke directly. They were never under fire, and the HQ was (and was always) in control radius and in good order. I tested this twice and both mortars both times were unable to fire their remaining, smoke rounds indirectly but had no problem firing them directly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Scott, are you sure that the HQ unit which commands your mortars has a clear LOS to the area you wish to fire at ( wether smoke or HE rounds)? Also, you should not target an enemy unit with your mortars if you use this kind of indirect fire or they will not fire at all. 109Gustav, perhaps you can workaround this particular problem: if you see that one of your tank is low on HE rounds and can only fire for say 30 seconds give him a Pause order and let him reverse out of LOS to the target. I must admit that my tanks do not run out of ammo, they usually die before... ------------------ Es gibt Tage da verliert man und Tage da gewinnen die anderen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochen2 Posted June 3, 2000 Share Posted June 3, 2000 In most cases, when the tanks use their smokeammo, the rest of my troops is so low on ammo, that i was always very happy, that the tanks blocked the LOSs of the enemy. I think it´s a good solution, until the smokefiring unit remains on the battlefield. If you are angry about their smokeusing remove them, or put them out of LOS ... perhaps this could help. Jochen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R-Man Posted June 3, 2000 Share Posted June 3, 2000 I agree that mortars should save their smoke rounds after expending all of their HE shells. It makes no sense for them to use up all of their smoke just because the 60 second turn has not expired. This is a bug. Well, it bugs me, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted June 3, 2000 Author Share Posted June 3, 2000 Moving the tanks out of LOS isn't always an ideal solution. For one thing, they could no longer use machine guns against their targets. Also, it would leave several HE rounds still in their lockers, where they don't do nearly as much good as if they were landing among the enemy. ------------------ There is nothing certain about war except that one side won't win. -Ian Hamilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted June 4, 2000 Share Posted June 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav: Moving the tanks out of LOS isn't always an ideal solution. For one thing, they could no longer use machine guns against their targets. Also, it would leave several HE rounds still in their lockers, where they don't do nearly as much good as if they were landing among the enemy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yup, you're right. I run into the same situation you mentioned for the first time yesterday. May 105 Sherman started to fire smoke rounds while he still had 5 HE rounds in storage. In the order phase of the next round when i assign a new target for my tank i simply ordered him "not" to use his main gun and the smoke problem was solved. I think the tanks keep a minimum of HE rounds for emergency situations. Schuggerbaby ------------------ Es gibt Tage da verliert man und Tage da gewinnen die anderen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted June 4, 2000 Share Posted June 4, 2000 Sigh! Double posted again.... [This message has been edited by Schugger (edited 06-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Morgue Posted June 4, 2000 Share Posted June 4, 2000 I've had the same problem with mortars running out of HE then continuing the fire mission with smoke , messing up the LOS , this is a bug for sure , it would never be done in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 Not only does the laying down of untold numbers of smoke shells spoil LOS and waste ammo, my poor old pentium 200 struggles to cope with the graphics!!! More smoke coming out of my CPU than there is on the screen! Smok'in Stuka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbaro Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 Yeah, Stuka even my PIII 500 has slowed some. The VOT Allies attacking me have used smoke fairly effectively smoking my LOS when the Panther comes in. Knock a Sherman or two on the knoggin and here comes the smoke. Forces me to either push through it or evade it. Actually I have found my VOT German 81's damned near useless. They don't want to accept the Company Commander's targets, though they are in his line of sight and if they have line of sight they will pick their own whether I point out anther in their LOS. And the preregistered target is often ignored as well. Being in command and control by the old man seems to make them onery. And they are worse without. Their smoke is so pitifully supplied that you are lucky to get one good positioning out of the total. I sure hope design your own will allow defenders a healther supply on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 In the situation I listed above I am 100% positive I had LOS and command to the mortars. I may try to re-create it this week sometime... ------------------ Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton: In the situation I listed above I am 100% positive I had LOS and command to the mortars. I may try to re-create it this week sometime... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm at a loss, Scott! The indirekt fire rules work for me like a charm. Have you checked if you had targetted an enemy unit with smoke or HE rounds while using indirekt fire? Schugger ( who nerves sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 Despite asking a perhaps useless question i become a member Ok, where is my Leather jacked with the full member CM Logo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColumbusOHGamer Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scott Clinton: Never happened to me, yet. But kinda off topic... I mentioned this once and did not hear anything else. I have had the 81mm mortars in VoT never move and fire all of thier HE. Then when I tried to fire thier Smoke I was uable to. I had to move and fire the smoke directly. They were never under fire, and the HQ was (and was always) in control radius and in good order. I tested this twice and both mortars both times were unable to fire their remaining, smoke rounds indirectly but had no problem firing them directly. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have a similar problem in that I have the Jerry's 81mm fire smoke at a point that is in LOS (or in the CO's LOS) and nothing happens. They fire, I watch a puff of smoke come out of the tube, follow the shell in the air, watch it land and then nothing. No smoke. I've written it off as a minor bug that BTS probably knows about. Wonder if the two are related? COG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schugger Posted June 5, 2000 Share Posted June 5, 2000 It usually takes some time between the impact of the shell and the appearence of the smoke ( up to 30 seconds in my experiance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kelly Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 Hey BTS, this smoke thing is still going on in beta version 24. I thought it was absurd then and I still do. Please fix this. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK6583 Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 A bit OT but still related to the AI and use of smoke. I commented on this before and even with v24 I'm still not sure if this is a bug or not. Every time I play the AI a similar routine happens with the AI's use of arty. If all the AI can see are my tanks, which I've left stationary for a few turns, then a rain of arty smoke comes pouring down - not one HE round to speak of. When I expose some infantry that was deployed and hidden with these tanks, the arty swithes to regular HE fire. Having seen what 105mm and higher arty HE fire can do to tanks, the consistent and constant use of arty smoke by the AI when only tanks are "seen" by the AI seems to indicate that something is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted January 9, 2001 Share Posted January 9, 2001 BK6583, I've noticed that too. Sometimes it doesn't make sense, sometimes it does. Today, for example, I was playing and the AI used up almost his whole fire mission of 155 to lay smoke on my 20mm armored car. Not wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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