Fionn Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Ron, Sorry for biting at you so hard. I've been very sick for the past few days and have had killer headaches so my concentration and mood aren't all they could be. I can see where you were coming from given my poorly written initial post. Here's what I MEANT to say : 1. While hackers WILL pirate CDs with or without the manuals the likelihood of people DOWNLOADING and NOT buying the game itself decreases if this pirated version of the game does not have the manual. Obviously not having an electronic version of the manual won't stop the pirating BUT it will greatly lessen the number of people who will download it and enjoy it and quite frankly anything that can be done to lessen those b****rds enjoyment is something I'm willing to do . It sucks that we won't all get an electronic version of the manual since I would love to get it too to read prior to game release BUT, quite simply, putting it out would increase piracy and reduce BTS' sales and survival prospects. I think none of us want to do that right? Anyways Ron, sorry for snapping at you but I was in a foul mood and in pain... ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 I have a problem with understanding the manual and piracy issue. A pirate can buy or borrow a single copy of the game with the manual. Then he makes a scan of the manual and offers with the prirated CD. Game is over. The manual is out there and can be distributed. I don't need the manual now even though it would be nice. But I don't see how distributing the manual to individuals that have ordered the game hurts. There must be another valid reason. (Disclaimer: no intentional offense to anyone, it is late at night and I have little time to write this....> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 There is another good reason why the manual won't be uploaded I guess... it's not written yet. And since it will be probably the last thing Steve does before release (I hope so at least, or don't you hate to have to look for readme files all the time to see all the late changes to the interface?), everybody that buys the game will get their printed manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamse Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Well I might be flamed and spanked for this post but ........ My standard routine since a few weeks back from now is too first download a game from a warez site and if it's good i buy it. Someone said that the hackers dont care about the quality of their "releses" THAT THE ABSOLUT TROUTH ! The warez version of Hidden&Dangerous is much slower and crached too desktop a little now and then(the retail version dont have those problems). But "some"(read most) game developers dont care about their quality either ! I bought Braveheart, and that was possibly my worst affair ever ! I played the thing for 7h and now i try too sell the thing(but who want too buy a buggy game with a loot of missing features that are in the manual but not in the game, a TAC AI that screams charge at first sight of the enemy, manover is impossibel, boring gameplay(search for the enemy when you attack a village) and so on and so on.......) I burned my fingers on CC3(realred fixed some of the problems(credits too R Gretz and the RR heros) but it is still a pretty boring game,the maps have too long LOS!) So I either read alot of reviews(CC3 got great reviews ) or even better(for my part) play a warez version before i buy a game. I'm a student and have 7500kr/month and a game cost 500kr here in sweden so when I buy a game that one HAVE to last more than 7h Well i think i will preorder CM. This one cant fail ! Björn Elfström Hmm, 37$*8=300kr is that inkluding everything ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Apart from the pirating discussion.... I can't understand why anyone would want a PDF manual. I hate those acrobat reader programs and I would definitely prefer a real printed manual with some sort of (professional/semiprofessional) binding over a home-printed version in a folder or stapled together. If a person does not want to print out a manual, or doesn't have printer how can he access the manual during a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 R Cunningham: Dual monitor system or task switching. That having been said, I use task switching most ofen since a lot of the games I have barf on a dual monitor Windows system. One game which seems to happily co exist on an 'active' dual monitor setup is Starfleet Command. That game came with the manual in pdf format (as well as a 160 page spiral bound rulebook). When I play the game, the pdf file is displayed on the second monitor so I can refer to it during a scenario. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Dual Monitor? Who the hell has that (besides you)? I certainly don't. And I don't plan on acquiring a second monitor for that (or any) purpose. Task switching takes up memory. When I play games, I try to refrain for superfluous multitasking as my experience indicates that this is asking for trouble. And the world's best reason for a nice, printed, non-electronic manual is: (drum roll, please) You can't take your stinkin' PDF manual to the throne room when ya gotta take a dump. Secret Squirrel, Out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You can't take your stinkin' PDF manual to the throne room when ya gotta take a dump.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Amen! Brother Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 R Cunningham: I don't know who the hell has that besides me. And no, having a manual in pdf form is no excuse for not having a nice fat manual. I want a nice fat manual, and one that is chock full of data. I'm probably (almost certainly?) not going to get what I want though, so c'est la vie. The remaining question that I've got is will I be able to print out the 'call up' unit data and weapons penetration charts, or whether I would have to do screen captures and print them out one by one. Now, *these* I would take to the throne and pour over them. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Tom, We aren't planning on providing the unit data externally. Too many other things to do. Right now we are at the stage where even something that takes a 1/2 hour is questioned, and making an external setup like this would take muuuuuuuch longer HOWEVER, Fionn is getting this stuff pulled together for TGN's Combat Mission HQ site. It will be exactly what you are looking for. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Steve: Ok, thanks for the information. For example, will Fionn be including the penetration diagrams for TGN as well as the 'pop up' info that I've seen on some screenshots (the ones with font/side/rear armour thicknesses and some range attentuation? ). If so that is a hell of a lot of work on his part. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Tom, The penetration diagrams will be on the CD. I am not sure if he will put everything in the popups online, but I have seen the mockup for a German Schützen 44 pattern squad and most, if not all, of the data was in there. Our first reaction was the same as yours (i.e. "dude, you are crazy" ). Well, he is going to get some help on this project and, in fact, I just sent out an NDA to one individual already who is going to help out. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted September 23, 1999 Share Posted September 23, 1999 Steve; thanks for the quick reply. Do you know if I will be able to print out the penetration diagrams from the CD (are you going to include some kind of mechanism to do this ), or must I take screenshots of the diagrams and then print them out with a third party utility? And yeah, I *am* crazy enough to print them all out in colour. I figure it's going to cost me the same amount of money whether I do it, or you would charge me $200 or whatever Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 24, 1999 Share Posted September 24, 1999 Thomas, If the data is available in any way shape and or form then I'm game to post it to TGN for everyone to access. I have seen the unit lists and they are FAR bigger than what most people imagine them to be so I'm hoping that once the beta demo comes out some people who are interested in the same things will volunteer to help as its far too big a job for one or two people. I've done the mockups of a German Pattern 44 Rifle Battalion and all its constituent units (Panzerschreck, HQs, rifle squads, 81mm mortars, LMGs, HMGs etc and it worked out well but obviously the more people volunteer to help when the info becomes available then the better. If anyone is interested then email me at fionnk@thegamers.net (or, since that email is acting a bit funny today at fionnk@clubi.ie ). Cheers, ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted September 27, 1999 Share Posted September 27, 1999 I'll help out any way I can. I'd have made a unit database for myself, anyway. Obviously, I don't have any data available right now. But as soon as I do I expect to be spending a fair bit of time cobbling together some spreadsheets in Excel. Fionn, I've got an expert certification on Excel from Microsoft (whatever the second level of expertise is), so I'll certainly be able to whip up some real pretty spreadsheets if you need them. Yeah, the certification is really silly, but it looks good on a resume. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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