rwcanuck Posted October 8, 1999 Share Posted October 8, 1999 From my Panther web site I got an email from someone asking the following question....if anyone has some info on this Panther conversion could you let me know? thanks "Some times ago I've read about a conversion on a Panther fitted with bolted PzKpfw IV Ausf H's turret which served as a command tank of schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 on the Eastern Front in early/mid of 1944. Well I'd like to know if you have some more informations about it." RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 8, 1999 Share Posted October 8, 1999 This info is taken from http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/KievPapa/germany.htm There is also an image of this vehicle on this site. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>PzKpfw V Panther Ausf D1 (some sources state that it was Bergepanther) fitted with bolted PzKpfw IV Ausf H's turret which served as a command tank of schwere Heeres Panzerjager Abteilung 653 on the Eastern Front in early/mid of 1944.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted October 8, 1999 Share Posted October 8, 1999 That is freakin' bizarre--like a chihuahua's head on the body of a St. Bernard. Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 8, 1999 Share Posted October 8, 1999 This BefehlsPanther is one of the favourites in "weird armour" quizes and also there is one person who haunts the various boards who constantly brings it up citing it as an AFV no-one's ever seen before to impress newbies on those boards... Most everyone else just finds him a bore though .. There's not much to say about it except that it was a repair shop conversion mating a Pz IV H turret with a Panther chassis and wouldn't have been of as much value in combat as a Panther, hence its use as a command tank... It's just one of those armour oddities that crop up every now and again but does make a really good introductory quiz question.. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted October 8, 1999 Share Posted October 8, 1999 There had to have been some good reason to chose the PzkW IV turret over the Panther turret--More room to dedicate to radios and charts, perhaps? I doubt this could have been an easy modification, due to the difference in turret ring size. Some thought and planning were needed to do this, and I'd bet it took more than just dropping a turret into the hull. Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted October 8, 1999 Author Share Posted October 8, 1999 Thanks guys for the info on this oddball Panther...Germans must have been experimenting to see if the Mark 4 turret could hold more radio equipment than the Panther turret..cannot see what other reason unless there was a back order of Panther turrets at that given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 8, 1999 Share Posted October 8, 1999 Nope guys... I obviously wasn't clear. This SINGLE vehicle was NOT a prototype or anything like that.. What happened was that Abteilung 653 had a damaged Panther and a damaged Pz IV H and rather than abandoning both vehicles the repair shop decided to emplace the turret of the Pz IV H onto a Panther chassis. This was done by the battalion repair shop as far as I can find out and was NOT sanctioned by anyone higher up the chain of command. So, in short, there was no big plan, no higher orders it was simply the result of some really innovative battalion repair officer who figured that it was better to put a crap IV H turret onto a Panther chassis (crap cause I simply can't imagine how they got it to rotate or got any hydraulic power into it) than abandon both damaged tanks. As far as I know it was simply an extempore mating of chassis and turret from two damaged tanks. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted October 9, 1999 Share Posted October 9, 1999 This thing piqued my interest so I asked about it on the Heavy Metal Forum. I got several replies that essentially agreed with Fion's, also one of the replies included this quote and source: Combat History of sPzJgAbt 653 by Karl Heinz Münch, publ. by Fedorowicz Publications, ISBN 0921991371 On pp. 371 and 377 there are 3 pictures of the Bergepanther with a Pz IV H turret (with side skirts) bolted to the chassis, so it is not movable. The crew had to fight like an assault gun. An interesting detail is that the Pz IV commanders cupola was subsituted by the old Panther D cupola. ------------------ If something cannot be fixed by hitting it or by swearing at it, it wasn't worth saving anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts