T90 light fire - slews entire turret rather than use MG

[Kinophile]

T90 facing off against about 3 Bulats. heavy urban environment

Spots an enemy inf directly behind him, probably an FO, which basically pinpoints the T90 for the enemy.

I set LIGHT FIRE against the inf, while moving away towards the Bulats (but into cover)

T90 slews its entire turret , Despite already being in contact with multiple enemy MBTs. to use its coax on the inf.

Arena defends against 2 shots, 3rd gets through, total loss.

 

Why would an MBT not use its CROWS or equivalent on an infantry BEHIND it?

Is it because I specifically told it to light fire on him? Would it have taken care of him itself?

If so, then Light Fire SPECIFICALLY means the coax firing?

https://youtu.be/vY_p_8eXrKI

 

 

Edited October 14, 2015 by kinophile

[Luka]

Interesting, I've never noticed this but it intrigued me so I tried it out [only quickly]. The turret slewed every time I set Target Light behind it [area fire not at a target], and fired both the coaxial and CROWS, both when stationary and moving forward.

[Kinophile]

Exactly! 

Prettydaft AI behaviour.

[Vanir Ausf B]

T90 slews its entire turret , Despite already being in contact with multiple enemy MBTs. to use its coax on the inf.

When you say "in contact" do you mean in line of sight? In any event, when the player gives a Target order of any kind the AI will tend to prioritize that target over others it may spot although it can override the player's order. Target Light means fire machine guns and there is no way to order just one machine gun to fire. If given no Target order by the player the AI can and sometimes will fire on multiple targets simultaneously utilizing different combinations of machine guns and cannon so that would be my recommendation in that situation, and in fact I rarely give Target orders on spotted enemy units since the AI is much more flexible when left on it's own. I pretty much only use target orders for area fire.

[Luka]

Did you save before that turn by any chance? I bet you must be kicking yourself for if you didn't save. You could replay it without the Target Light command and see what happens.

[Kinophile]

It's a pbem, I have the file, but I'll bite down and play on. 

Norrmally I would, yes,  let the tank auto target. I probably jumped the gun, in trying to kill the enemy eyes on my tank (as the Inf was spotted by the tank itself, so it was aware of him). 

But the tank should still be able to use its CROWS to target infantry, as a first choice. This kind of situation is exactly why the system exists in the first place -  to free up the main gun to stay on its prime targets. 

While not an error in coding per se,  it certainly feels like a gap in SOP MBT AI behaviour with regard to appropriate weapons targeting choice. 

[Luka]

That's why I'm curious to see whether the tank would target them with the CROWS while still focusing on OpFor had you not given the command. If that's the case then I assume giving the command means effectively telling the AI that its threat number one and to focus exclusively on it whereas if left alone they would use the CROWS as its meant to be used. If so its a shame you weren't aware of it before. Good luck with the battle

[Kinophile]

I'll run a copy this evening with that variation and forward to Abbasid to run his equivalent turn. 

EDIT: Here is the db link for anyone to try out. 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/lqnnugf1y46q50s/KPvsRC 013.ema?dl=0

 

Edited October 14, 2015 by kinophile

[c3k]

It's a pbem, I have the file, but I'll bite down and play on. 

Norrmally I would, yes,  let the tank auto target. I probably jumped the gun, in trying to kill the enemy eyes on my tank (as the Inf was spotted by the tank itself, so it was aware of him). 

But the tank should still be able to use its CROWS to target infantry, as a first choice. This kind of situation is exactly why the system exists in the first place -  to free up the main gun to stay on its prime targets. 

While not an error in coding per se,  it certainly feels like a gap in SOP MBT AI behaviour with regard to appropriate weapons targeting choice. 

Yeah, there's all sorts of funny things that can happen when you start giving orders to tanks. (For example, I want to face the hull to the north, but the turret to the east. Sounds like a covered arc to the east. What if infantry are seen to the west? How can it engage? Etc. It's worse with bow machinegun tanks when you start doing this.) The Target Light doesn't give you the fine-grain control you want...in this circumstance. It's a balancing act.

I see you've got the savegame in the db link. Passwords? (Kind of tough to run pbem turns without them.   )

(On the matter of pbem passwords, I always send mine to my oppo after the battle as a courtesy. Hell, I'll even send some oppos my password BEFORE the battle.)

Ken

[Kinophile]

pw is cmob

[c3k]

The turn you posted in Dropbox is a Ukrainian turn. The password "cmob" is not correct for that turn.

[Kinophile]

Oh! I'll correct this evening. 

[MG TOW]

I wonder if these are controlled by the ai much the same as the rear facing mg on the ww2 halftracks or Soviet heavy tanks. I would never think to give a target light command for the use of these weapons as they are pretty much at the mercy of when the ai uses them. And that has a lot to do with if the crew is looking rear and spotting. Not saying it shouldn't be refined or changed though or even if that is the case.

[Kinophile]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eqjjgszt1vu14hx/KPvsRC 014.ema?dl=0

Turn 14.

Correct DB link.

Turn 12 included here for prelude

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kilz9exfw23gqlh/KPvsRC 012.ema?dl=0