Ludendorf's Offensive ?

[operating]

First off:  Impressive game!  Still learning the game and all it's nuances, for which there are many.  Been playing successfully the smaller scenarios, then thought to give Ludendorf's Offensive a go, it's not an easy scenario (to me).  Decided on my first try as CP to go after Ypres during the deployment phase, placing 2 artillery, available air and divisions there (intention to knocking Belgium out of the war).  Over the next 5 months (3 day intervals) managed (beginner setting 0-0)  to capture all that remained of Belgium, plus Calais.  Belgium starts off with 100 MPP, however, with the exception of 1 Belgium general and 1 detachment, 22 other Belgium units were stuck in the production queue (will never play with unlimited soft builds again!), Belgium's MPP never went below 75 MPP and or 50-56% NM.  I was somewhat stunned by this, for now there was no way to get Belgium's NM to "0" unless I gave back Belgium one of it's cities, so that it could release the units in the queue (out the question)  to be killed to lower Belgium's NM.  This I found as an enigma.  I'd rather find out the answer to this than going into a Grand Campaign to run up against this enigma once again (it would ruin a lot of work). 

 

Secondly:  I'm not a student of the war in all it's detail.  By turn 3  (9 days time)  the French have 10 class one  entrenchment breaking heavy artillery (mostly full strength), English have 4 of the same artillery (full strength) and the Belgians  have I mean artillery (class 1 HA full strength), 15 all total (plus Verdun's 5  artillery forts including the city), to Germany's 12 artillery units (3 arrived class 2 heavy, 4 upgraded to class 2 @ 180 MPP each (most  don't have mobilization) , and another 5 understrength artillery  that don't put a dent into #4 entrenchments).  It would take upwards to about another 1500 MPP to fully upgrade the German artillery.  Maybe I have history wrong?  For I always thought that the Germans had superior artillery all around and numbered more than compared to the Entente. 

 

Thirdly:  By turn 3 (my second game) has anybody noticed the vast number of French divisions between Rheims and Paris?   Perhaps I'm showing my inexperience, but I just don't see the power in the German offensive to get anywhere near Paris.  I've lost 4 divisions and many heavily damaged, air power  is just about useless for the amount of MPP used to repair damage, be it they go on a sortie or not.  Unfortunately Both kinds of bombers can not be disbanded, not that I have any heavy bombers yet, they had been nearly completely useless in the previous game, insanely costly to use. 

 

Fourth:  In spite of the bitches I have, the game is tight as it should be, that's where the game get's my respect, it's not easy.....

 

PS, In my first game with scenario  unlimited soft builds there was so many Entente aircraft  by October that they could have filled  NFL football stadium parking lots  in all directions on game day, unfortunately the game does not end till  late  December!            

Edited September 10, 2015 by operating

[Bill101]

Hi

 

The key to the German artillery's superiority is that they can deploy three full strength, fully upgraded artillery units with 10 shells wherever they wish.

 

This enables them to blow a hole in the Entente line in one area, but requiring time to regroup afterwards and restock shells before launching subsequent attacks. It wouldn't necessarily be wise to upgrade them all because many are just helping guard sections of the front from diversionary Entente offensives, but it should be possible to badly damage or destroy some Entente artillery units during your initial offensive.

 

While I'm not sure why Belgium's National Morale wasn't falling further, it wouldn't actually trigger a Belgian surrender in this case. The reason being that this campaign is fought for Objectives, and capturing these is what determines victory or defeat. The countries involved will fight on even if their capitals fall... with France being the big exception, as capturing all of Paris would result in a Central Powers victory.

 

In terms of the large number of Entente units mentioned, the French Reserve Army deploys 10 divisions around Paris in the first 10 days of the campaign, and two US units will also arrive there.

 

If you're playing the AI then it does receive more income than a human player would, depending on the difficulty level, so I suspect the many Belgian units you mentioned are going to be rebuilt units which are cheaper than new units.

 

Ypres itself is a fairly tough nut to crack, whereas if the initial offensive were to be launched at Gough's British Army where Ludendorff did first attack, or possibly aiming instead for Soissons or Reims then maybe more of a damaging blow could be inflicted on the British or French for less cost. It's true that the French Reserve Army would then have to be fought on ground more to its liking, but the National Morale benefit of having German forces near Paris is not to be overlooked.

 

I remember struggling hard to save Verdun when one opponent chose that as a goal for his second offensive. It was a very hard fought campaign and really hard to get sufficient reinforcements there at the same time as blunting his continuing offensive on Paris.

 

Back when this campaign was being beta tested, two of our testers did produce an AAR that you might find interesting:

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/106431-1918-ludendorff-offensive-aar/?hl=ludendorff

 

Bill

[operating]

Hello Bill,

 

Yes, that suggested AAR is a good read, have not finished it yet.  Paying particular attention to the thought process of the players, also picked up on how one of the players did a Hot Seat with himself, which I found interesting.

 

Bob

[operating]

Bill, Let me ask this: Is there a cheat factor favoring the AI? I can understand where the AI could continue to build units with the unlimited soft build button in the "on" position. I try to keep track of the management window for MPP of all countries. As fast as I kill off an enemy unit, it appears in the production window almost as fast as when they actually get killed, or at least in the next turn. I'll pay closer attention to this in the future... Of course I rebuild losses ASAP also within budget constraints.

Also what I am paying closer attention to is the "intelligence tech", for I was having a difficult time developing my techs, but noticed the AI kept on increasing Intell techs at a fairly quick pace especially by the Americans. If Ypres is captured: Does that stop Belgian tech development? or does that fall under the English tech dev.? I think the latter, but not sure..

Bob

[Bill101]

Hi Bob

 

The AI doesn't get a cheat factor, but as it has some income bonuses which increase with the level of difficulty then it may simply be that they are reforming destroyed units at a fairly rapid rate.

 

The loss of resources will not affect research, except to the extent that it reduces income for research.

 

Playing in Hotseat, even if just a few turns, should help a lot with understanding what each side has to play with, I'd definitely recommend doing that.

 

Bill

[operating]

Hi Bill

 

Having a little more success this time around managing the game and learning to be patient.  Got off the starting line in a few spots, nothing to brag about, at least it was in a forward direction.  Captured Rheims a couple of times,  much to my chagrin the AI brought 4 French artillery and one tank nearby  to blow my divisions out of there.  Trying to develop a strategy to hold the city, otherwise I feel it's hopeless to get near Paris.  Been sacking a few generals for the first time ever, it did not turn out to be as expensive as I originally thought, so I was pleased with that..  It was bad enough contending with the French and English air forces, now the Americans have their air force entering the game, yet the Germans are still limited to what they start out with...Another headache, time to raid  the medicine cabinet.  Next time around with this scenario will go after the British for a "Breakthrough", the French have been tough, plus the buggers have been trying to make a mess of my southern front.

 

Bob   

[operating]

Bill

 

I still don't get it?  The Brits just got 2 more heavy artillery and an American heavy artillery, 18 all toll to Germans 12.  No chance for the Germans to produce more guns.  Aren't the Germans still sending men and equipment from the Eastern Front during this Lundendorf  Offensive?  The Entente has 3 times the airpower (English, French and Americans) than the Germans.  Maybe that's the way it was historically.  If that's true, it's no wonder why CP lost the war....

 

German heavy bomber hits Paris causing a 1 (one) point MPP loss, the German bomber takes a 5 strength loss at a cost of say 36 MPP to repair, 36 for 1 not great odds for the Germans, plus it does not cost France nothing to repair Paris on the next turn, ludicrous is the word that  comes to mind.  If I could trade all my bombers for one German heavy artillery, I would gladly do so.

 

Bob

[Bill101]

Hi Bob

 

As time goes on, if the Germans don't keep inflicting significant punishment on the Entente forces then the latter will be able to buy up offensive weapons like artillery which will ultimately tip the balance away from your forces. There is only a narrow window of opportunity during which the Germans will have the initiative, and how long that lasts will depend on the success of your offensives.

 

That's why it is crucial to launch the most effective offensive right from the start... and is why Ludendorff was probably right to aim for Gough's British Army like he did.

 

The same applies in the air, where the balance swung away from the Germans as time went on, despite their good quality fighters.

 

As to the reserves coming from the east, these are reflected in terms of the reinforcements you can provide, in the starting strength of the German army, and some reinforcements that do arrive early in the campaign. What was left in the east was mostly second rate and not at all keen on coming west, with large numbers (about 10%) deserting en route.

 

The best role for the Bomber is to strike at a Town that the Entente are using for communications, in conjunction if possible with their Airship and if it's close to the front line, their Rail Gun, in support of the overall objectives of the ground campaign.

 

Bill

[operating]

Mister Bill!

 

It's now July 13 Entente has losses of English 33, French 41, Belgium 4, USA 1 units so far.  Germany has lost 18 units, that's nearly 4 to 1 Germany's favor, yet their NM is lower than France's.  Germany still has some punch left to do some very limited offensives, but that is quickly evaporating with time and with the Hordes of Entente arriving every turn, although shortly the AH will start to arrive, as you know with AH it is not capable of doing much other than shoring up a very small area of the line.

 

Am going to continue with this initial offensive setup at Rheims just to grind up as many French units as I can, obviously to chip away at their NM. The AI has placed 2 French HA and RR gun to the southern front for which I cannot counter, plus air units I can't counter with either, except to put AA in nearby MPP cities, which are getting constantly bombed.

 

Again, in my next scenario, will go after the British to see how that plays out.  In my first game (uncompleted) the Belgium army was just about completely out of the war, so the Brits had to make up the difference and was down to about 50% NM.  I would have kept going except the unlimited unit button was in the "on" position unwitteningly by me, which made  the game nearly untenable to reach the end, or at best to be fighting on my heels till a conclusion.   There are aspects of the game I have not totally comprehended yet, which can be a factor in my pessimism. 

 

I'm not completely sold on your snapshot of what was the reason for no further German reinforcements from the east.  Will do research to the subject before I say too much about something I am not totally knowledgeable about.  I think this is an excellent scenario, that is not overly complicated, but still requires staying focused....

 

And what do you mean by "communications"?  I have an idea what you mean, but I don't know if it's the same idea as yours?

 

The 2 German RR guns:  One is placed by Rheims to keep MPP and supply down plus nail French HA in the second line.  the other is north of Verdun, again to rain fire into Verdun to zero out it's MPP and supply and harass the nearby French forts.  What a PITA those forts are at the beginning and ends of Entente turns!

 

Just thinking,  Bob

Edited September 15, 2015 by operating

[Furchtlosundtrew]

Hi there,

My opinion to this Scenario: Germany has a clear starting advantage not only because of it's artillery units, you can place free with 10 Shells each, but also because of it's gas/Shell level which is higher and makes each of it's gun much more valuable. Germans have a higher trench tech level too. If you use these benefits in the right way, you can bring the Entente into serious troubles!

Of course, the entente gets stronger and stronger, the longer you play and they will close the tech gap at some date. But you have a chance, to cause so heavy damage before, that you will be able to win this scenario. Normally you will not reach Paris, but you can reach a major victory by conquering some key cities (Verdun, Reims etc.).

 

Germany has one really big problem in this scenario and this is Verdun. As long, as I don't have conquered it, it's fortress guns will decimate my corpses round for round. This is in the long term very expensive in MPP, it lowers the fighting abilities of these units (because of their lower morale and lower experience) and it lowers german NM. In my opinion it is not a possibility to pull the German units away from Verdun to hinder the fortress guns to hit the units. The front makes a curve here and therefore it will become much longer, if I pull back. This would take more units to cover and Germany ist not very rich in units. So you have to take Verdun and you should do it as early, as possible. Therefore I place at least two of my starting guns here and you can take two of the Verdun fortresses with these in the starting turn. By using the other guns, which are already placed in the verdun area, you can take the other fortresses and the City itself within the first three or four of your turns. Despite of the unit losses France will lose much NM (Fortresses and City of Verdun are NM-objectives) and you gain a stronghold in this area which allows you, to use a lot of troops and the most of the guns in other Areas...

 

One word to the superior airpower of the Entente: I would not say it is worth nothing, but it will not have the big influence in the battle, you could think. Against entrenched units (and so are the most in the scenario) they will not be able to cause some damage and even if they find some units, which are not entrenched (artillery or HQs), they will not be able, to eliminate them. Their Attack value is to low. The biggest use of the airplanes is, to scout the Tiles behind the enemy lines. If you use them therefore, you can avoid nasty surprise contacts, while pushing forward in an attack. And remember: You need just one fighter, to escort your recon bomber, so the air superiority of the Entente in numbers will not hinder you, to use your recon planes in the described way. I often put my fghters in the "ground modus" in the end of my turns, to keep them up for escort missions in my own turn...

[operating]

Hello Furchtlosundtrew,

Yes, I see your method to the madness with your Verdun strategy!!!  And for all the reasons you have stated....  In an earlier go at this scenario I did capture all the Verdun forts and city, but not till later in the game.  The French AI was tenacious trying to take the forts back, I mean they pushed hard .  It was about this time that AH first arrived just to the east of Verdun to assist in Verdun's defense.  You might have noticed the rear (southern) of the forts could not be entrenched (somewhat vulnerable), however, the city could be entrenched.  Even was able to give the forts and city AA defense, but noticed that when AH units occupied (after Germans doing the capturing) these  locations the AA became less effective or unable to build AA defenses..  It was great for a change to see the French take a beating to regain the forts, which they did recapture from time to time, it was relentless attacking back and forth. The one unit that had staying power in the forts :  Was the German tank, even that had to retire from taking a beating from time to time.

I will try to put fighters in ground mode for the my present active scenario.  The only drawback I see there is that it will not stop AI air power from attacking the recon bombers and bombers that I intend to use on a following turn, the AI is not stupid, matter-o-fact, I find the AI somewhat intuitive to my next turn air attacks..

Question:  Where do you find the best places to deploy the 3 German AA units?  I have experimenting with these also.

I have not been using FOW, maybe later..

Thanks, Bob 

[Furchtlosundtrew]

Hi Bob,

I normally try to give the French troops a hard hammering in the first weeks of the scenario. I try not to be completely passive at the british/belgian part of the front, but i lay a clear focus on France. You can try to lay the focus at the Britis troops instead, but you should try to bild a focal point instead of spread your attacks all over the front (my opinion).

I deploy my artilleries in the following way: 2 of them in the nearest vicinity of Verdun. These have the Job to deentrench two of the forts in the first turn and I try to conquer them. The other one I normally depoly near to the town southwest of Verdun (don't know the name). There is a French Artillery behind the lines and you will be able to brake the French lines here an damage the artillery in the first turn. An important step to avoid counter attacks. In the following turns, you can try to capture this town there and cut some supply for Verdun (i belive the only railroad to the fortress goes trough this town, so the supply for Verdun should fall after capturing ist).

I also try to move other artilleries (even by forced marching) close to verdun, to be able, to continue the assault in the next turns.

 

I have to admit, that I never noticed the AI in attacking my recon Bombers consequently, maybe you should move them in less vulnerable positions.

 

 

If you like, i could sent you the first turn as I would play it by email. Maybe you can see something you can use for your own games. Just let me know your email (by PM), if you are interested in...

 

Good luck

 

Furchtlosundtrew

[operating]

Hi Furchtlosundtrew!

 

Sent pm.  Very interested in what you have to say, also any SS of the game.

Not familiar with what effect RR have on supply, will read manual again on supply to see the relationship.  That town to the SW of Verdun is not easy to reach early on.  I'm considering dropping the game I have going now (hate doing that) to try your strategy.  I'd produce SS here, but the system for doing them from SCWWI files to photoshop then posting here results in a poor quality IMO.

I'm no great general, but from what is suggested:  Is to keep units under a general's command as close as possible to the general and general close to it's units.  Do you keep your air forces under general's command?

 

Bob

[Furchtlosundtrew]

Hi Bob again ;o)

To your question regarding generals (HQs): It depends from situation to situation. HQs are useful for your units as they are pushing the readiness value of an attached unit. Try the following: Put the modus of an HQ on auto-assist or manual mode. Chose a unit and change between attaching and deattaching an nearby HQ (you can change it as often, as you like). You will notice, that the unit's readiness will be much higher with an HQ attached, than without. By changing between different HQs you will notice, that the command rating (the higher, the better) and the HQ experience (dito) will also influence the readiness of the attached unit.

You should have in mind, that the readiness is probably the most important value of a unit. The higher the readiness the better the combat results of the unit.

To keep HQs close to your Units ist for the supply reason. HQs are "producing" supply and the closer a unit, the better ist it's supply Level (generally spoken). The better the supply of a unit, the better the morale. And the better the morale, the better the readiness...

 

So normally (!) it is right, to attach HQs to all your units, even the air forces...

...but (!)...

...this is not true for all situations. As shown above, the experience of an HQ plays an important role for the readiness of the attached units, so it is important, to gain experience for your HQs and keep it high. Your HQs will lose experience, if the units - attached to this HQ - will lose fights. For the attacking unit a draw (for example losses of 1 point for attacker and defender each) is a lost fight, so in all cases, an attacking unit fights with a draw or a worser result, the attached HQ will lose some experience. If you have this in midn, it can be good in some cases, to deattach a unit from an HQ before combat. For example: Your artillery-units will in the most cases have a combat-prediction of 0 losses for the attacked unit (the real value of these attack is in the deentrenchment and demoralisation effect). So in the most cases the artillery will "lose" the battles. If you have your artillery units attached to HQs while attacking, this will suck much experience out of your HQs. And this can be the same for air Units in some cases, but it depends from situation to situation...