David Stone Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 For all you Beta Testers (Matt, Foin, Moon etc): Bear with me here... Because I am not competely sure of unit size or unit composition... Col. Frost's battalion at the north end of Arnhem's highway bridge seems the perfect "operational" inclusion in CM 1.0. Could this battalion sized unit be included in a single scenario or could it be set-up as an "operational" campaign?? From that, what info is there available on the German units attacking Col. Frost's battalion, and from WHERE??? Who, what, and where did the Germans arrive?? I know... alot of armor but?? A couple of kilometers square (city fighting included) makes this intrigueing... Stoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Frost's stand is eminently doable actually... Fionn ( I don't know what a Foin is but I bet its painful ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Roberts Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Hearing that Col. Frost at Arnheim is "doable" at CM's scale is excellent news! And it leads to my question, which is: Do we yet know any of the scenarios/ops that will be included in Combat Mission out of the box? I know that the editors will mean lots and lots of scens down the road, but what will we be playing on that first, glorious weekend? And speaking of Arnheim, how do you think the game engine will be for dense city maps? I don't have the demo, so I don't even know how troops (yours or theirs) in buildings are displayed. I hope that we won't have to represent towns and cities with just half a dozen scattered buildings. Who's got the scoop? Paul Roberts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Well, I'll take a crack at this. We have right now completed testing (initial) on the scenariks. There's many many of them. Don't know which ones will make the game, but every one I have played/tested has been very exciting! Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 LOL. I have made a VERY dense urbanscape with buildings, roads, crossroads etc. It'd be intense cityfighting IMO ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 About Arnhem While not the author of the operation, I have tested one and suggested changes. Will let him say who he is IF he wants. Don't know if it will be in with the scenarios that come with the release, as I requested some changes that will truly make you curse my name. Tim 'Rune' Orosz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kid Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Speaking of Arnhem, I was just wondering if the river crossing at Nijmegan by the 82nd would be included. It would probably sastify those who still want a D-Day beach assault since the side the germans held did have fortifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Yes, I have an Arnhem map done, and as soon as I can get the AI to do what it should, I'll be getting whipped into shape. I'm not saying it will be included. I hope so. But I am 3/4 of the way to having it done. You were talking about that one, weren't you Rune? If it passes Rune's playtesting, its ready for anything (G)! ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Yes, Paul, we know, but you don't (G). Now that is coldblooded. Like any good poker player, you don't want to tip your hand, but think of nearly every month of the period from June 44 through May 45. Think of most of the battles better known to historians and gamers of Western Europe. Think of last stands, hard charges, tenacious defenses, running tank battles, alamo situations, rescues,.. Think of paratroopers, tank commanders, tank aces..You'll see them all. Now if I say more than that, I'll be on the outside looking in. ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Ar, yer a mean one Bill. You can't be toying with us like that man, it's pure evil... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Wild Bill, yep, you are the author of the one I was talking about. You know the evil changes I suggested. Guys, you will want to play this one... Tim 'Rune' Orosz Raider Combat Mission Raider Team Wild Bill's Raiders The Gamers Net: http://www.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted December 17, 1999 Author Share Posted December 17, 1999 Following-up, Wild Bill or Rune... Does your Arnhem "operation" include that one Kampfgruppes(?) attempt to cross the highway bridge early on in the battle?? Frost's paratroopers in place, and a mechanized column comes from the bridge's south side... Always have wanted to play that 'episode' with an accurate map and units!! Thanks Guys Stoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Stoner, Give away secrets? Never! Just name, rank, serial number, and Date of birth. As I said, you will live to curse my name, although your troops may not live to do it. Tim Orosz, Raider Combat Mission Raider Team Wild Bill's Raiders The Gamers Net: http://www.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 For those that are interested in the entire market garden operation and battles there is an excellent book I just finished reading a couple of weeks ago (getting ready to make scenarios myself don't you know) entitled, "It never snows in September". It is all about the market garden operation from the German's perspective and does get into quite a bit of detail on the German units involved, there make-up, where and how they were employed, etc. Very much worth reading. Can't remember the name of the author off hand other than he is British and it appeared that he did his research before writing the book. Including interviewing surviving German soldiers that were actually there, others, etc. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted December 17, 1999 Author Share Posted December 17, 1999 Okay Rune... Could Arnhem "operations" include having the British Airborne Battalion along the river road arrive at the highway bridge's northern end, only to find German Mechanized units in place??? Of course, the variables for this 'set-up' may not fall within CM's realm?? "Plans within plans..." Stoner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Another good German source is the divisional histories of the 9th and 10th SS Pz Divisions. The title is "In the Firestorm of the Last Year of the War". I haven't had time to read much of it, but the writing (and translation to English) is fantastic. The research appears to be VERY good. The number of vets he interviewed and drew from that were actually there is VERY impressive. He takes some issue with Ryan's "A Bridge Too Far" from the little I read. Basically claiming that there is a wee too much bias in it toward the heroism of the Brits, and a bit too much knocking of the Germans. There was one part I read that challenged Ryan's assertion that the Germans were tipped off before the battle, which would mitigate some of the early problems the Brits ran into. The evidence brought out in this book to dispute this is very convincing. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 12-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 David, in order to have a good historical battle of Arnhem, I may have to lock the units in place. But of course, there is an editor, and it offers you the opportunity to the operation and change that. That is, of course, if the scenarios and operations that come with the game are accessible. I can't comment to that point. Now I am not saying there will be an Arnhem operation in the game, only that it is very possible...(G) ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Stoner, To answer your question, I think the road by the railroad bridge and the North part of the Arnhem bridge where Frost was, would have to be two seperate operations. Could they be made into one? Yes, but would it be easy to control? Think about the amount of units each side would have to have. It would get really hairy. The way the scenario is now, it is just Col. Frost and some Panzers who decided to crash the party. My favorite quote is not "Nuts", but the British Officer who replied when asked if they would like to discuss surrender terms "We would like to, but I am afraid we just don't have the room for all of you." Tim Orosz, Raider Combat Mission Raider Team Wild Bill's Raiders The Gamers Net: http://www.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Tim, actually there would be another problem putting both bridges on the same map. They're several kilometers apart, I would have to look up exactly how much, but it would most probably not fit on one map. Shows you once again the scale of Combat Mission as compared to the scale of most military history books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rune Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Moon and Stoner, I might be wrong, but I believe the distance is under the 5km limit. Again, I agree that it should not be done, as everything, map size, number of units, etc, would make this game impossible to manage. two seperate operations, and as Moon correctly says, the scale of the operations and scale of books are NOT the same. Tim Orosz, Raider Combat Mission Raider Team Wild Bill's Raiders The Gamers Net: http://www.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knaust Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 hey Bill Wilder Moon and the like.... can you create a scenario with the famous one-legged Major KNAUST commanding his Tiger bataillon against Brits at Arnhem and on The Island? me Knaust would be very pleased....thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted December 19, 1999 Author Share Posted December 19, 1999 Hey Everyone, Appreciate the replies. I guess the highway bridge arena is the only Arnhem "operation" I would really like to see initially. Talk about a city fight of with the all the classic infantry versus armor elements!!! Wild Bill, if memory serves, there are some very good aerial photographs of Arnhem in Cornelius Ryan's book. I am a map "buff" and the historical values of this game's editor have me JACKED!! I cannot wait... Looking forward to everyones scenarios over the net too!!! Happy Holidays, Stone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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