German Grenades

[AttorneyAtWar]

To keep it simple what were they designed to do when compared to other nations grenades, and other than the 39/42 Stielgrenate what other grenades did the Germans use?

This video sparked my interest, the narrator could be completely wrong but he says "Their grenades are used more to stun than kill", at least in terms of the classic stielhandgrenate.

Thanks.

[agusto]

The Stielgranaten had the Stiel (litterally stick) so that they could be thrown further than regular grenades without a stick attached at the bottom. If held at the stick, the center of mass of the hand grenade was further away from the shoulder of the thrower, so it could acquire a higher velocity and thus had a higher throwing range when compared to regular grenades. The very common german Stielgranaten 39, 42 and 43 were blast grenades in standard configuration, but there was also a fragmentation 'pot' that could be attached called Splittertopf (litterally fragemntation pot):

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attachments/ordnance-ammo/465770d1360695613-m43-stielhandgranate-detailed-pictures-img_9503.jpg

http://www.fjr2.be/Wapens%20-%20Stielhandgranate%2043.jpg

The fragmentation pot could explain why the narrator in the vid says that the german greandes were used more to stun than to kill: without the Splittertopf, the kill radius of Stielgranatens blast effect was probably inferior to allied fragmentation grenades like the Mk2 grenade. The reason why the germans wanted to stick with the optional Splittertopf though was that without it friendly troops were less endangered of getting killed by their own grenades when used in close combat. This was especially useful during attacks, when the germans often could not throw from a position where they would be safe from the fragments of a regular fragmentation grenade.

The most produced german hand grenade of WW2 was the Eierhandgranate (litterally egg hand grenade 39); a blast grenade with a slightly smaller charge (112 grams Donarit) than the Stielgranate 39 (170 grams TNT):

http://historyconect.szm.com/6ZR06_b.jpg

Another interesting german grenade type was the PWM, the Panzerabwehrwurfmine (litterally Thrown-Anti-Tank-Mine):

http://photos.imageevent.com/ricklarson/ammunitionphotos/large/PICT0270.JPG

It was to be used in that manner;

http://greyfalcon.us/picturesw/w28.jpg

much like this modern toy for children:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31k%2BvsS-JkL._SX300_.jpg

[John Kettler]

Raptorx7 and agusto,

The Eihandgranate 39 also had a frag overlay available. This is a great grog site.

http://www.inert-ord.net/ger03a/gerhgr/m39/index.html

All the relevant goodies are in TM-9-1985-2 GERMAN EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE (Bombs, Fuzes, Rockets, Land Mines, Grenades and Igniters). This one's taken from scratched up microfilm, but it's free.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/TM/pdfs/TM9-1985-2-German.pdf

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

agusto,

Cute toy, but the PWM is not thrown the same way at all. It is not some sort of big dart, even if the release image would seem to suggest this is the case. This drawing clearly illustrates that.

http://world-war-2.wikia.com/wiki/Panzerwurfmine_(L)?file=Panzerwurfmine.jpg

And here's the release sequence from official German instructional material (1:30).

At 1:32 there is a pic of a GI who thinks he knows how to use the weapon. Note the hold he employs.

Regards,

John Kettler

[agusto]

Yes, now that you say it i remeber that, but yesterday i couldnt find the image i was looking for. I was looking for this sequence of photographs in particular:

http://azkojatakoja.persiangig.com/image/panzerwurfmine/7.jpg

I was happy though that i found any images of the PWM at all. It was very rarely used because throwing it accurately required extensive training.

[John Kettler]

Raptorx7,

The German Stielgranate series, as originally conceived, was an offensive grenade whose damage modes were blast and concussion. It was designed such that the Landser could throw the grenade well ahead while up and not have to hit the deck forthwith, hindering offensive mobility, as was definitely the case with the various Allied pineapple type grenades, whose primary damage mode was fragmentation and which covered a great deal more area than did the circumscribed blast and concussive effects of the German stick grenade. Naturally, when the series and the Eihandgranate began sporting frag sleeves and shells, as user options, that had to change.

Regards,

John Kettler

[c3k]

The stick grenade was an offensive grenade. The use envisioned an onrushing squad, tossing the grenades on the run, as they closed with the enemy. The attackers have less cover than the defenders. The grenade had a large proportion (by weight) of explosive filler, a thin metal shell, and the stick for range. The properties which were meant to be emphasized were range (since the attackers were running up on them), stun ability, and relative safety from fragment casualties to the attackers.

The large fill produced localized blast effect, stunning and incapacitating in a small zone.

The stick allowed the grenade to be thrown beyond the range of its fragmentation/blast effect.

The thin metal meant that fragments did not go far.

Defensive grenades, like the classic pineapple grenade, were also used by the Germans. Their use presumed that defenders had cover. The range was short; the heavy casing produced large fragments which travelled far and caused debilitating wounds. There was little stunning; there was relatively more incapacitation due to deep wounds. The grenade could not be thrown further than the fragments could travel. Meaning, if you did not have cover, you could wound yourself/your mates when you threw it.

Ken