Indy Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 I would like to give my apologies on behalf of all HPS fans for the post I’ve been reading regarding PITS vs. CM. I for one have more than enough space on my shelf for both games and I truly hope CM blows PITS away in both realism and fun. I also hope the next HPS game up the ante even further. There are so few good quality wargames out there we really don’t need to cannibalize each other. I think we should truly support all wargames. So please take my apologies for what it’s worth. We HPS fans are not all jerks. P.S. and no I’m not running for some political office but I do accept donations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 Indy wrote: "We HPS fans are not all jerks." We didn't think that. DjB [This message has been edited by Doug Beman (edited 10-23-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 Thanks Indy. Without getting back into that all, we never thought this either. A game should not be judged based on its customers alone. Scott's games have been one of the things that has kept wargaming alive in these troubled times. Although we are in a sense rivals, we also understand that no one game has the right to the entire "shelf". As I have said many times here before, it is perfectly possible to enjoy and support more than just ONE game, or even genre. I know CM beats Close Combat on many counts, but I still enjoy my copy of CC2. I also enjoy RTS and FPS games. I just wear different hats when I play each. Seeing as I collect uniforms, I suppose I have about 60 different games I could play at the moment And once my backordered Hungarian fatigue hats get here, add two more Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 Indy, Thanks for posting. I know I for one never felt HPS fans in general were close-minded etc. i don't want to get into the whole thing again but I know a lot of HPS fans who are looking forward to CM and also are awaiting POA2. Anything I said was purely because that person exasperated me so much and aimed at him. I shouldn't have said what I said to him but his unreasonableness just got to me. Anyways, I for one welcome any SP, HPS, or CC fan (or any others before you ask) with an open mind. Hell SP and CC fans know me from some of the SP and CC forums out there and I'm even subscribed to the Tacops and HPS mailing lists so obviously I believe there's room on my shelf for many wargames. I happen to believe I'll play CM more than all the others combined but as you said there are so few good wargames out there that even if we all bought every GOOD wargame which came out in a year we'd only be adding a half-dozen games to our shelves. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 Just to throw in my own 2 cents... I have never played any of the HPS games, nor have I yet played CM. (hint, hint) The biggest difference, and what makes the "To play, or not to play" choice for me is scale. HPS's site shows off the nice features of their product, and while it may be a great game, and fit what some players are looking for, I am looking for lower level command than what I see of the HPS games. The difference between "2 Panther VG attacking 3 Sherman M4A3" and hit, hit versus watching Fionn's MkIV and Martin's Sherman cranking off shots within a split second of each other, and seeing the mutual kills. I just wish people could discuss the merits of each game and how it fits their desires/wants/etc, rather than diatribes about how mine's better than yours. Even if HPS is/were/becomes (no statement of fact here) more accurate modeling than CM, it is the point of view provided, and what I personally am looking for in a game that has had me pre-order CM, while after looking at the PitS, and TotP, I won't buy them. If I want diatribes, I'll go into politics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risc Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 I like HPS wargames very much. I own Panthers in the Shadows as well as Tigers on the Prowl 2 and some extra campaigns for each. I wouldn't compare HPS wargames to CM as I think they are a bit different games, though I didn't play yet CM and so can't really speak about it yet. I like different games for a bit different reasons and I believe Close Combat 1, The Ardennes Offensive, HPS games contribute to my free time well spend. I hope that CM can be added to my all the time play list. Also definitely looking forward to Tigers on the Prowl 3 as well as Panthers in the Shadows 2 which will be wargames based on POA2. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 24, 1999 Share Posted October 24, 1999 Herr Oberst, You hit the nail on the head about what is important in a game. I am a big fan of accurate modeling. However, at some point the degree of accuracy in things like armor piercing, hull placement, morale, command and control, bullet counting and tracking, all have diminishing returns on my satisfaction with the game. I think that CM has clearly demonstrated a top notch method for modeling these and most other aspects of combat. I think they have paid incredible attention to detailing and accuracy. Is it the best modeling? Maybe. My reasons for buying CM are simple. What do I want in a military game? Of course realism should be a part of the game, but I want to see my King Tiger rumbling down the road, stop, pivot and fire on a Sherman. I want to see both sides simultaneously duke it out in 2D or 3D. I want to see my orders carried out. I want to order my King Tiger to head down the road, stop and fire on that Sherman. I want to see those orders turn into chaos as my big super tank, chokes down in the snow and spins it's treads. I want to see the American Bazooka team open up on my tank and pop-it open like a can of tuna. Can a American Bazooka team pop-open a King Tiger? I don't know. I am sure of one thing, having spent over a year watching CM evolve, CM knows much better than I whether it can or can't happen. I am absolutely confident in CM's ability to model this stuff. And if it can happen, I wanna see it in action and then I'll whine about it. Many software developers will eventually go to the CM style of displaying the orders in 2D/3D and allowing the players to watch. How accurate they model combat is up to them. But one thing is sure beyond a shadow of a doubt, within just a few weeks, an entirely new genre of wargaming will be launched and I get to play it. I also have many war games on my shelf, and I'm sure other war games will be on the shelf in the near term. I plan on adding TacOps, Panzer Elite (even though I really don't enjoy it - I still get to drive a King Tiger), CC IV (even though i really don't like the voices, the RTS - I get really nervous doing all that stuff in real time), and possibly the HPS stuff. Sincerely, Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 Could somebody shoot me the url for HPS? If I missed it elsewhere, I'm sorry. Thanks ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 It's http://www.hpssims.com Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Thanks preacher man. Bless you. ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Indy - I couldn't think HPS fans are jerks because I'm one too. (Of course I could still hate myself for being a jerk... but we'll ignore that for now.) Although there are things about the games that drive me nuts (hexes, interface, a few other points), there's a lot about the games that is brilliant. They're still on my harddrive, and I've been playing with PITS the last month. On the whole, and espeicially considering the age of the games (five years or so - they're VGA DOS games) they hold up well. To compare them to CM is a bit pointless. Different concepts, different design philosophies. It's like comparing Point of Attack, TacOps and Brigade Combat Team (spot the modern warfare buff) - all good games, quite different models and design decisions. There is not problem. We're not talking Highlander here: "there can only be one". Fionn's right when he says "even if we all bought every GOOD wargame which came out in a year we'd only be adding a half-dozen games to our shelves". Finally I'd like to make the point that the HPS guys are decent people, who don't try to take a "we're the best they all suck" attitude. Sometimes well intentioned fans can do the objects of their fandom a disservice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy Posted October 26, 1999 Author Share Posted October 26, 1999 Yes Brian and Fionn my point exactly. I actually can find a lot I don’t like about HPS games but that can probably be said with all the wargames I have. Combat Mission looks awesome and I can’t wait to get my hands on it. I probably will lock myself in my study for months but I will still continue to support all wargame developers. I just hated seeing the trend of CM vs. Pits developing and possibly causing new wargamers not buying one over the other because of it. The two games really are not comparable anyway. It would be like comparing Achtung Spitfire to European Airwar. Anyway Bigtime Software and HPS and anybody else keep up the good work and I’ll keep opening up my wallet….ooops outa cash , do you accept checks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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