Need some tips for a Wolfheze Map

[JonS]

With the auto-draw tool, I've found it useful to draw roads in fairly short lengths to avoid a lot of the weirdness. Even with that, though, I've almost always found it necessary to go back and redraw all the roads tile by tile.

[Pak40]

With the auto-draw tool, I've found it useful to draw roads in fairly short lengths to avoid a lot of the weirdness. Even with that, though, I've almost always found it necessary to go back and redraw all the roads tile by tile.

Odd angles are certainly a pain since it doesn't preview what it's going to do before you place the second point. However, most of what I have to go back and redraw are the intersections of two or more lines. It doesn't seem to know how to connect the pieces. Anyway, it's still a time saving tool over the single tile placement method.

[Broadsword56]

I finally stumbled on a RMB and LMB mouse technique with the line drawing tool that lets me lay things down faster than if I hand-selected the pieces, yet still gives me total control. One key is not to click more than about 2 action squares away at a time. Long straight segments of course can be clicked over very long distances. I can't really describe the technique though.

[kohlenklau]

Broadsword,

You need to pass the technique on to your son, and he will pass it on to his son, and so forth, someday on CM9 or CM10, they'll tell tales of the Broadsword family secret LMB-RMB method like weaving those expensive rugs from Pakistan, Iran, etc.

At work today I zoned off and secretly scribbled my plan. I will divide up the map into sectors and start whittling them away. I'm laying down landmarks, usually big churches to delineate the route of the road. Somehow eventhough the overlay is there, it just seems so wooded. Of course it helps to see the woods and use the biggest paint brush to coarsely make those areas wooded...

Maybe I should have used 2 overlays.

1 more of a road map and 1 the satellite image or period air recon photo.

This weekend I get a big pot of coffee and get cracking.

Sorry Jonny the Scotch has to stay corked...

[Broadsword56]

Broadsword,

You need to pass the technique on to your son, and he will pass it on to his son, and so forth, someday on CM9 or CM10, they'll tell tales of the Broadsword family secret LMB-RMB method like weaving those expensive rugs from Pakistan, Iran, etc.

LOL -- OK, I'll try and describe it:

I select the line drawing tool.

When I need to draw a linear thing like a road, wall, fenceline, bocage, hedge etc., I do this:

a.) Click once with LMB to set the starting action square.

b.) Move the mouse no more than three action squares away along the intended path, and click LMB again.

c.) Click the RMB on the final action square of the newly drawn line to erase that last square of it (that's is the important part -- for some reason the tool always seems to do screwy things with the final square. If you erase that then it seems to draw more logically from the previous square without as many wavy lines or weird angles.)

d.) Place the cursor on that square you just erased, and click LMB to resume drawing freom that point.

e.) Repeat b and c ad nauseam.

You may think "what's the point?" and feel you could draw a linear sequence faster by just hand-selecting each arrow for each tile. But actually once you use this technique, you'll find the AI of the line tool actually does help in automatically -- usually -- selecting the right piece. The trick is just not to make it draw more than 3 AS as a time and to keep erasing and re-doing that endpoint as you go.

For straightaways, of course, there's no need to do this and you can draw the entire thing as long as you need to with two clicks.

[kohlenklau]

I think I understand and will give it a try today.

L-R-L

L-R-L

L-R-L

my back is achin', my belts too tight

my pack is shakin' from left to right

yo' lef aaa aa yo lef...

Thanks

[kohlenklau]

L-R-L is working nicely.

I also figured out to just edit the special editor overlay and add in whatever else was useful. In paint.NET I added in topographic data and some other place names and it shows up perfect now. It did take a relatively long time to draw a 3D and did ctrl-alt-del but never had time to stop the program as then it changed from not responding to running and the image came up nicely. Broadssword I think i recall your posts about your big Tunisia map and had the same comment, I think...

I'll do some screenshots later to show the progress and solicit feedback.

[Pak40]

LOL -- OK, I'll try and describe it:

I select the line drawing tool.

When I need to draw a linear thing like a road, wall, fenceline, bocage, hedge etc., I do this:

a.) Click once with LMB to set the starting action square.

b.) Move the mouse no more than three action squares away along the intended path, and click LMB again.

c.) Click the RMB on the final action square of the newly drawn line to erase that last square of it (that's is the important part -- for some reason the tool always seems to do screwy things with the final square. If you erase that then it seems to draw more logically from the previous square without as many wavy lines or weird angles.)

d.) Place the cursor on that square you just erased, and click LMB to resume drawing freom that point.

e.) Repeat b and c ad nauseam.

You may think "what's the point?" and feel you could draw a linear sequence faster by just hand-selecting each arrow for each tile. But actually once you use this technique, you'll find the AI of the line tool actually does help in automatically -- usually -- selecting the right piece. The trick is just not to make it draw more than 3 AS as a time and to keep erasing and re-doing that endpoint as you go.

For straightaways, of course, there's no need to do this and you can draw the entire thing as long as you need to with two clicks.

Thanks, I'll try that technique

[kohlenklau]

Broadsword, the L-R-L rug weaving is going great guns. Thanks again.

Even on the diagonals it seems to be expediting the process.

A little "then and now" to show what I am doing....

[kohlenklau]

OK, you guys are probably sick of me already...

But I wanted to again thank JonS for the link to the topo maps. Cheers Jonny!

Now I have it all inputted. It has solid contour interval lines at 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, then auxiliary contour interval lines (dashed) at +2.5, +5.0 and +7.5. I used those values for my elevation data. Manual says they are also in meters. I could not do the .5 values but just rounded it off

Now I am laying in the trees. I kinda need some other species of tree. The ones in the editor don't seem so "Hollandy".

I dunno. I see some pix with these brick or stone cobblestone streets but I am also thinking they had asphalt, tarmac, macadam?

[Broadsword56]

I find maps look more natural when the elevation contour lines are all dotted. There's no need to draw them solid, and in fact it adds unnecessary strain to the game engine. Just place an elevation dot wherever your contour line changes direction. The games's elevation system will figure out the rest and does quite a naturalistic job, IMHO.

[kohlenklau]

I confused you, I meant on the printed map, solid and dashed...

On the map in the editor when doing elevations I use the direct button +/- to my desired value, then drag the cursor and paint along the special editor overlay line. I wouldn't say it is solid at all. But maybe I should go back and check.

[kohlenklau]

well, I have finished all the topo including broadswords's recommendation to not have a solid line of black squares. Did the main roads. Now working on the gazillion little forest tracks. Also working on a few action streets.

Then and now.

If I quit my job, divorced my wife and disowned my sons I could really finish this sooner!

Aww crapper, I just noticed I had the trees turned off, the opposite side of the street was supposed to be bushy...

[JonS]

If I quit my job, divorced my wife and disowned my sons I could really finish this sooner!

Yeah. Tackling massive multi-km x multi-km maps and battles is a trap that a lot of first time explorers in the editor fall in to. Making a massive scenario is viscerally appealling, but it takes an eternity to complete any aspect of the scenario. Then later on when you inevitably find mistakes or things you want to amend, it takes another eternity to update it all.

IMO, a better approach is to start with tiny little 500m x 500m maps that have about a platoon on each side. Learn about all the various bits of the editor, develop your own style, and actually finish a few scenarios before tackling something big.

[kohlenklau]

Great! Now you tell me! ;-)

Well, I did finish 1 small scenario for CMFI and it is on the repository.

"Salvate il Maggiore Rinetti"

Italian axis Human player versus German axis AI only.

It was a small map. I did all the roads by hand and did not even know about the draw tool. It was a fictional town so the overlay feature did not come into play.

Of course I have done many scenarios, operations and campaigns for my own use.

CMAK, CMBB, etc.

I've got a mini-campaign in the works "Sauvignon Sahara".

I am held up by burn-out on the final map. A big chateau battle.

Macisle reinvigorated me with the white manor map.

He smartly just did H2H which saved all that time on the AI plans.

He smartly just layed out the purchased forces for the human player to redeploy.

His briefings for the scenario version were cut and dry and his briefing images were simple and easy to understand. His time went into the map, a labor of love with good techniques. Then he posted the QB version which even drops the briefings!

I am not saying I can pull off a Macisle but I have decided to not worry about the AI plan or scenario briefings. Once I do have this big bugger finished then it can be chopped up into smaller parts IF NEEDED for smaller sized QB action. Right? Or the custom QB battle with a 3rd party intermediary.

Anyhoo, weekend is finito, gotta get up at 0330 tomorrow...

[Baneman]

You shot that poor Kubelwagen driver just to get a matching screenshot !

You're a monster !

[JonS]

Great! Now you tell me! ;-)

it can be chopped up into smaller parts IF NEEDED for smaller sized QB action. Right?

Definitely. With a bit of thought, a map that size should probably be able to be carved up into 7 or 8 decent QB maps, of varying sizes.

[kohlenklau]

Baneman,

He's a well paid pixel actor.

Actually, I couldn't leave it to chance.

The kubelwagen was already destroyed.

The poor sod was a 50% casualty conscript low morale sniper -2 unfit.

[kohlenklau]

Jonny,

1 more thing...

Another thing I have learned now versus earlier is that for example like on my burn-out in finishing that mini-campaign where I am working with a fictional from my imagination map. WTF! Now I see! The heck with that imagination ****e. Macisle looked at that French village and nailed it and probably used less overall energy than a dozen noobies lost in the forest of unfinished scenarios. Get me them topos and google earths.

The naked female model sits before me and I use my pallet to depict her curves as they really are.

That aint workin, that's the way you do it, get your money for nothin', get your chicks for free.

Buona Notte amici!