Bug? Garand / M7 Grenade Launcher being fired like a bolt action: EDIT, nope it's not

[LukeFF]

I thought maybe I was seeing things, but upon replaying a PBEM I confirmed what I was seeing: soldiers equipped with a grenade launcher on their Garand will fire .30-06 rounds through it like it's a bolt-action. The soldier will fire a rifle round, cycle the bolt like it's a bolt-action (and the shell casing will only then eject), and then take aim for the next shot.

I have the save-game file if it helps.

[LukeFF]

Never mind, I see it's modeled correctly: http://www.ww2gyrene.org/weapons_m7.htm

While the launcher was attached to the muzzle, the rifle would only function in manual mode. To allow the rifle to fire in semi-automatic mode, the grenade launcher had to be removed from the rifle.

[YankeeDog]

Nope; not a bug -- in order to direct all of the gas forward out the breech and make the Garand effective at propelling the rifle grenade, the Rifle Grenade adapter for the Garand had a special extension which blocked the gas return port for the semi-automatic mechanism and rendered the Garand a manual cycle weapon as long as the adapter was attached. So if the soldier had the grenade adapter fitted to his Garand, he could still fire regular rounds out of the weapon, but he had to cycle the action manually.

Of course, he could always remove the adapter, but this would take time.

HOWEVER, from what I have read, the "Grenadiers" in U.S. forces (they weren't officially titled as such) often acquired a second Garand or by one means or another and would carry two rifles -- one with the adapter attached for firing rifle grenades, one without for use as a regular rifle. AFAICT, CM does not model this at all.

EDIT: Ninja's by the OP... a bit weird, but there you go.

[womble]

...from what I have read, the "Grenadiers" in U.S. forces (they weren't officially titled as such) often acquired a second Garand or by one means or another and would carry two rifles -- one with the adapter attached for firing rifle grenades, one without for use as a regular rifle. AFAICT, CM does not model this at all.

I believe it does, at least sometimes. I certainly remember having seen an M7-adapted Garand slung while the pDogface uses or holds a non-adapted rifle.

[c3k]

Buddy-aided and acquired an extra one?

[YankeeDog]

I believe it does, at least sometimes. I certainly remember having seen an M7-adapted Garand slung while the pDogface uses or holds a non-adapted rifle.

Interesting. I'll have to check that out sometime.

[womble]

Buddy-aided and acquired an extra one?

I don't think so. It's a while since I played the Amis, but I don't think so.

[Nidan1]

Nope; not a bug -- in order to direct all of the gas forward out the breech and make the Garand effective at propelling the rifle grenade, the Rifle Grenade adapter for the Garand had a special extension which blocked the gas return port for the semi-automatic mechanism and rendered the Garand a manual cycle weapon as long as the adapter was attached. So if the soldier had the grenade adapter fitted to his Garand, he could still fire regular rounds out of the weapon, but he had to cycle the action manually.

Of course, he could always remove the adapter, but this would take time.

HOWEVER, from what I have read, the "Grenadiers" in U.S. forces (they weren't officially titled as such) often acquired a second Garand or by one means or another and would carry two rifles -- one with the adapter attached for firing rifle grenades, one without for use as a regular rifle. AFAICT, CM does not model this at all.

EDIT: Ninja's by the OP... a bit weird, but there you go.

Don't forget to mention that a special blank cartridge had to be chambered in order to create the gas to launch the grenade. With a clip full of blanks, it would certainly be wise to have an additional rifle or sidearm available.

[Saferight]

how about 2 garands with m7's???

[YankeeDog]

Ya; in that image, both rifles he's carrying clearly have a grenade adapter attached; it's the extension beyond the front sight post. The one on his back has a grenade mounted as well, but the one he's firing definitely has an empty adapter attached to the muzzle.

So visually anyway, he's carrying two grenade-capable (and therefore manual action) rifles.

Be interesting to know what's going on in terms of game mechanics i.e., is the second rifle modeled as being able to fire semi-auto, even though it's graphically shown with an adapter attached?

It appears there is some sort of bug here, either a minor graphical one in the display of the second rifle with an adapter attached, or a minor mechanical one in that a soldier carrying two rifles would almost certainly only attach a grenade adapter to one of them so that he could use the other rifle semi-auto.

It's also technically unrealistic for a soldier to be running around with rifle on his back with a grenade mounted on it -- the grenade wasn't held on by all that much so was always mounted just before firing. But this may be a deliberate design decision in order to make it easier for the players to see which soldiers are carrying grenade launchers.

[Seedorf81]

Ya; in that image, both rifles he's carrying clearly have a grenade adapter attached; it's the extension beyond the front sight post. The one on his back has a grenade mounted as well, but the one he's firing definitely has an empty adapter attached to the muzzle.

So visually anyway, he's carrying two grenade-capable (and therefore manual action) rifles.

Be interesting to know what's going on in terms of game mechanics i.e., is the second rifle modeled as being able to fire semi-auto, even though it's graphically shown with an adapter attached?

It appears there is some sort of bug here, either a minor graphical one in the display of the second rifle with an adapter attached, or a minor mechanical one in that a soldier carrying two rifles would almost certainly only attach a grenade adapter to one of them so that he could use the other rifle semi-auto.

It's also technically unrealistic for a soldier to be running around with rifle on his back with a grenade mounted on it -- the grenade wasn't held on by all that much so was always mounted just before firing. But this may be a deliberate design decision in order to make it easier for the players to see which soldiers are carrying grenade launchers.

Maybe he just picked the second one up from a dead M7 GI from another squad? And he didn't have the time yet to unscrew the M7 from either Garand?

[Nidan1]

Eeeeeew, the fingers on his left hand are also creepily the same length....is that a bug too???

[YankeeDog]

Maybe he just picked the second one up from a dead M7 GI from another squad? And he didn't have the time yet to unscrew the M7 from either Garand?

It may be that the game is not capable of recognizing that a G.I. already carrying a Garand with a grenade adapter who picks up a second Garand with a grenade adapter should remove the adapter from one of the rifles. It's a pretty specific set of circumstances that have to happen for this issue to come up, so it would be easy to miss.

But the adapter doesn't take long at all to remove -- it simply locked into the bayonet lug, so attaching or removing it too no longer than the time it would take to attach or remove a bayonet. So if he's going to take the time to pick up the second rifle, he almost certainly has the time to pop off the adapter.

[Saferight]

I played that same mission that screenshot was taken from several times an everytime there was always some GI running around with the same thing.