Street Sweepers

[hollister21]

I have thoroughly enjoyed the U.S. Army campaign throughout, and I am now working on fighting through Street Sweepers.

I have had now had 2 occasions when enemy forces were "spawned" or reinforced right on top of my forces, resulting in heavy casualties.

The first were 4 technicals - luckily I had 4 Abrams to quickly dispatch them but still they were able to smoke a Stryker full of infantry. Then, several turns later, 4 or 5 squads of combatants appear literally in the same 5 rooms occupied by one of my platoons. I took 15 or 16 casualties within seconds of the turn starting.

Was this seriously designed into the map? I'm taking enough casualties as it is in this MOUT environment, it is very frustrating to have to deal with this as well.

[iMolestCats]

I call them ground dwellers. They are common in syria and should be expected, some times they can dig a hole big enough to fit their technicals in and suprise you! They can usally be found in northern syria on the outskirts of big cities. But lucky for you these are just the lightly armed ones. On the isreali border area some ground dwellers have been reported to use T-55s and other vehicles. They can be countered by useing a special device called a "ground shaker" this will cause their tunnels to collapse and stop them digging in they area it is set up.

[YankeeDog]

It's been a long time since I played this particular scenario, so I don't remember specifically, but this is probably just a scenario design issue.

What with the completely new game engine and also new time period, there was a pretty steep learning curve for scenario designers when CMSF first came out in 2007. Even in the "official" scenarios & campaigns included on the game CD, there are definitely some flawed design choices, especially in terms of time allowed, how and when reinforcements show up, etc.

I think the modern combat setting is particularly tricky in this regard -- modern AFVs are much faster than their WWII analogs, and often have weapons systems that can spot and accurately target at ranges of multiple kilometers. Modern infantry "battle taxis" like Strykers are also faster, better protected and more capable than their WWII analogs, which means that under many conditions, mechanized infantry can move by IFV quite a bit more quickly and with less risk than their WWII analogs. So overall, it's much harder for the scenario designer to predict where the player will have his forces, when.

I would also guess that timing issues like this also sometimes have to do with play style conflicts -- e.g., a scenario designer creating a scenario with continuous (no pausing) Real Time play in mind, and then players playing the scenario in Real Time with a lot of pausing, or in WEGO, thereby making more efficient use of time. The lesson here is that if the scenario designer envisions a scenario as best suited for a particular play style, there should be some sort of advice in the briefing as to how it is intended to be played. With the early scenarios, usually there is not.

Good news is that scenario designers adjusted their craft pretty quickly, and by the time you get to the stuff included with the Marine module, issues like this are much rarer.

[Erwin]

"The lesson here is that if the scenario designer envisions a scenario as best suited for a particular play style, there should be some sort of advice in the briefing as to how it is intended to be played. With the early scenarios, usually there is not."

Very good point. Wish there was a "GUIDE FOR DESIGNERS" to standardize this and many other issues... eg: Structure and contents of Briefing, ammo resupply etc. This is especially vital for campaigns.

Many times (esp when inexperienced) a designer assumes that players are telepathic and can somehow understand his intentions.

[eniced73]

You think triggers would help? Are there units in the vicinity of square A? Yes--Do not spawn there. NO--Go ahead and spawn there. If Yes---Are there units in vicinity of square B? Yes--Do not spawn there. NO---go ahead and spawn there. They are built into the TOW series and work pretty well for that game. I do not see why they would not work for CM. In fact my opinion is that it would elevate scenario design to the next level for some of you guys.

[hollister21]

Triggers are absolutely a good idea - you can take the guesswork out of where and when the human player will be at any given time.

I stuck it out for another 20 or so turns, until another entire "large combatant" group (like 6 squads) spawned in another group of buildings I was occupying. Lost almost an entire platoon. So that was the third time in the mission.

I ended up semi rage-quitting this mission and took a Minor Defeat. I feel like I deserved better since I felt like I was finally starting to "sweep the streets" up and looked to be close to victory.