BFC, Possible U.S. Cavalry Recon Squadron Glitch

[John Kettler]

BFC,

SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT!

I'm currently playing "Cats Chasing Dogs" as my first armored outing, and in checking a couple of things which came up, I learned of a possible error. My concerns lay in two areas: 1) I thought I should have .50 cal MG jeeps, rather than .30 cal MG jeeps; 2) I was pretty much baffled as to how to unload my 60mm mortar team, there being no icon for the team, only the jeep!

Concerning 1), some digging revealed that, much to my dismay, you generally got the jeep MG issue right, as seen in the Wiki for the 106th Cavalry Regiment (United States) which essentially says that some .50s were present, but by no means standard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/106th_Cavalry_Regiment_(United_States)

"The three reconnaissance troops were each equipped with Bantam jeeps with a bracket-mounted .30 caliber machine gun, manned by a soldier sitting in the front passenger seat. A second Bantam jeep was mounted with a 60mm mortar manned by two soldiers. Sometimes the Bantam was mounted with a .50 caliber machine gun.[10]"

[10]^ a b c d "The United States Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron, Mechanized". Archived from the original on 1 August 2008. Retrieved 2 December 2008.

Concerning 2), "Houston, we have a problem." What problem? Each jeep is supposed to have a driver, and there are six for six jeeps, three of which carry 60mm mortar teams. Frankly, I count myself lucky that, absent a mortar team icon for the mortar jeep I used, I was able to get the mortar team out at all. Happily, I did so, but I thought for a time that the mortar team might be abstracted, what with no icon having been provided, and firing taking place from the jeep. It was in trying to resolve that contradiction that I discovered the basis of my problem. The 60mm mortar team is composed of two mortarmen, not three. The third man is the driver. I quote from the site Bayonet Strength. (Fair Use)

http://web.archive.org/web/20080801081611/http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/Reconnaissance/united_states_cavalry_reconnaiss.htm

"The Scout Section had six Jeeps, carrying a Sergeant, two Corporals, six drivers, six mortarmen and two riflemen. The three NCOs and two riflemen carried M1 rifles, the drivers submachine guns, the mortar crews M1 carbines. Three of the Jeeps mounted an M1919 light machine gun, the other three each carrying a 60 mm mortar."

Thus, each jeep with a mortar team should have a driver and two mortarmen. In turn, this means the mortar team should have its own icon, as should the driver. This would reduce confusion, since there would clearly be dismount elements, and make things much easier for the player running the Cavalry Recon Scout Section. The 60mm mortar is an important weapon for this unit, and I was lucky I figured out, by sheer happenstance, how to bring it into action.

I have no idea whether this is an issue in other scenarios and suspect the implementation is the same for the QB force menu. Please correct this when feasible to do so.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Michael Emrys]

I encountered the thing with the mortars just yesterday myself. I had purchased the scout platoon of a cav squadron (this was in FI BTW) and noticed the jeeps. After a few moments of puzzlement, I tried the Dismount command and voilá, everything was copacetic. The driver also dismounted, so I put him back in the jeep. My thought like yours was that it was odd that the mortar crew did not have their own icon while mounted, since SFAIK the mortar cannot be fired from within the jeep. If BFC has a defendable reason for working things this way, I'd be interested in hearing it.

Michael

[womble]

Let me get this straight: you guys are saying that there's a jeep, with its own driver, and when a mortar team is embarked as well, that mortar team's icon disappears? That's something I've never seen in other formations/scenarios.

[John Kettler]

womble,

There's a jeep, which has an icon for itself. It starts with three people in it, in other words, already fully loaded and in march order. There is no crew icon at all, never mind one for the driver and another for the 60mm mortar team. The actual jeep carrying the mortar team is supposed to have a separate driver and carry a two man 60mm mortar team, including mortar and ammunition. Luckily for me, Dismount actually worked.

Back when I was playing the CMBN Demo, I had a jeep-borne FO team. There, I had three icons, one for the jeep, one for the driver and one for the FO team. When I ordered my FO team out of the jeep, so it could slip into the woods, the driver stayed with the jeep, which I backed down the ridge. I believe the way my FO jeep was set up is how it's supposed to be, but the same can't be said for the recon jeep bearing the 60mm mortar team. This situation is also true for ALL of my jeeps with men in them, whether MG jeeps or the command jeep.

Regards,

John Kettler

[womble]

womble,

There's a jeep, which has an icon for itself. It starts with three people in it, in other words, already fully loaded and in march order. There is no crew icon at all, never mind one for the driver and another for the 60mm mortar team.

No vehicle's driver (or crew in general, if multi-man) has a separate icon from the vehicle while mounted and doing their job.

The actual jeep carrying the mortar team is supposed to have a separate driver and carry a two man 60mm mortar team, including mortar and ammunition. Luckily for me, Dismount actually worked.

And what did you get? A 2-man mortar team plus a 1 man Driver "Crew"? Or a 3-man mortar team?

Back when I was playing the CMBN Demo, I had a jeep-borne FO team. There, I had three icons, one for the jeep, one for the driver and one for the FO team.

That should only be true if the driver has dismounted.

We're talking about "Floating icons" here, aren't we? Or are we talking about the silhouette icons showing what weapons are in use?

I believe the way my FO jeep was set up is how it's supposed to be..

If you're saying there was a separate floating icon for the driver while mounted, then I believe your recollection is mistaken.

[womble]

I've found what Mr Emrys was referring to, and that's in the "Armoured Reconnaisance Battalion" recon platoon, second section. The selection screen offers HQ team, 1st team 2 light mortar teams, 2 radio jeeps and 2 vanilla jeeps as separate entities. From the way BN presented things, I'd've expected the separate jeeps to come with drivers, but it appears that they are driverless and the 4 constituent teams of the sections are also the crew for their rides.

The way the mortar team is displayed, though, with no separate icon, is the way any team mounting a driverless vehicle and becoming its crew is depicted. It has always been thus. There's no separate icon for the recon teams that are driving the other two vehicles in the section either.

[Wicky]

IIRC In CMSF it had the ALL the different icons but it all ended up cluttered, so by popular demand the icon fest was toned down.