kirk23 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Corps = 225 MPP, 5 MONTHS Build time. Battleships = 450 MPP, 15 Months Build time. My point is I'm a naval minded guy,but even I don't see the point building Battleships,during combat the battleships are far to easy destroyed even at level 2 naval warfare. When I first bought the original version of this game,and I loaded up a game and sent my strongest Battleships into action only to see them take unbelievable damage,even althought the opposing force was only Cruiser and destroyers ? I thought no way !!! I could not believe it,and when it happened again and again in different naval actions I said stuff this and uninstalled the game.After a year and this new expansion gets released I thought ok I will take the game of the shelf and reinstall and add the expansion,but the naval losses have not changed,it still happens,I have resorted to using the editor,in an effort to try and make the ships far more durable,go into battle and returned to port with the damage,and get repaired,as was the usual result of naval engagements,they are unlike land warfare in that they are hit and run combat ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Naval combat is compleetly different from land combat in this game. Your ships are probably getting destroyed because they are being "ambushed" if you drive into a ship you were not able to see you take about 2x damage.(I dont know the numbers, but I think that is a fair guess) I do agree that it never is worth to build a battleship, but keep in mind that you opponent has to place the same ammount of MPP points into the ships. It is very expansive to keep your navy runing but given the chance investing jus enough can change the tide of a battle. Point is, battle ships die quickly, but both players have to deal with it.(they are like glass cannons, and last I checked there were a number of hisoric cases of gian battleships dying by a hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 7, 2012 Author Share Posted October 7, 2012 In game Ambush is a bad excuse to double damage if this is correct,because the High Seas Fleet was ambushed at Jutland,and no Dreadnoughts were lost to either side,damaged yes sunk no ! The Queen Elizabeth class Dreadnought Warspite came under fire from a gaggle of German Dreadnoughts when her rudder jammed,and she did 2 complete turns before they could steer her,yet she survived but sustained heavy damage,but no more than 4 - 5 strenght loss in game terms! Battleships being sunk all the time by the game is not historical,they should get badly damaged and return to port to repair,I can see the point of sinking some to make the game more interesting and gain points.I never ever play a standard scenario that I have not edited the damage to WARSHIPS. Here is a summary of major warships lost in World War 1. Loss Summary Gun fire = Dreadnought = 0 Gun fire = Battlecruisers = 4 Gun fire = Pre-Dreadnought = 0 Ship Torpedo = Dreadnought = 1 Ship Torpedo = Battlecruiser = 0 Ship Torpedo = Pre-Dreadnought = 3 Submarine Torpedo = Dreadnought = 0 Submarine Torpedo = Battlecruiser = 0 Submarine Torpedo = Pre-Dreadnought = 9 Mines = Dreadnought = 1 Mines = Battlecruiser = 0 Mines = Pre-Dreadnought = 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlape3 Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 In game Ambush is a bad excuse to double damage if this is correct,because the High Seas Fleet was ambushed at Jutland,and no Dreadnoughts were lost to either side,damaged yes sunk no ! The Queen Elizabeth class Dreadnought Warspite came under fire from a gaggle of German Dreadnoughts when her rudder jammed,and she did 2 complete turns before they could steer her,yet she survived but sustained heavy damage,but no more than 4 - 5 strenght loss in game terms! Battleships being sunk all the time by the game is not historical,they should get badly damaged and return to port to repair,I can see the point of sinking some to make the game more interesting and gain points.I never ever play a standard scenario that I have not edited the damage to WARSHIPS. Here is a summary of major warships lost in World War 1. Loss Summary Gun fire = Dreadnought = 0 Gun fire = Battlecruisers = 4 Gun fire = Pre-Dreadnought = 0 Ship Torpedo = Dreadnought = 1 Ship Torpedo = Battlecruiser = 0 Ship Torpedo = Pre-Dreadnought = 3 Submarine Torpedo = Dreadnought = 0 Submarine Torpedo = Battlecruiser = 0 Submarine Torpedo = Pre-Dreadnought = 9 Mines = Dreadnought = 1 Mines = Battlecruiser = 0 Mines = Pre-Dreadnought = 8 I do agree with you that large ships are too easy to sink but WWI may not be the best time period to state your case. In those days, the concept of "Fleet In Being" was more important than risking the fleet to damage your enemy's fleet. The relative lack of significant damage to the Imperial German fleet at Jutland may have had more to do with the fact the German ships were well built and the crews well trained. They were able to avoid being broadsided numerous times despite being outmaneuvered at key junctures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 One problem with making Battleships harder to sink is that it will then be harder to square it with the general perception that the Royal Navy could have lost the war in an afternoon. Make them harder to sink, and naval battles become less decisive, and instead they will turn into hard fought slogging matches. By keeping things dangerous, the battles are faster and more decisive, hence both sides need to be careful to know when to risk battle and when to avoid it. In addition, if losses are greatly reduced then players will become more carefree with their use of their fleets, whereas as we know from WWI, both sides were anything but carefree with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 On the question of ambush, it can increase damage by 25%, but it is class based, so that a superior type of ship, e.g. a Battleship, will not be ambushed and suffer damage in this way from an inferior type, i.e. a Cruiser or Destroyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapare Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I still think the system works well. And you guys do know that fleet battles represented here are not single shots, each turn is like half a month to a month. I feel it is fair for a ship to do 4 damage on another ship.(I have never seen instant distruction of a 10 hp battleship.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirk23 Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Well using the editor I have the days passing one at a time,slow but sure is the way I like it. Regarding ship strenghts damage,I realise you can't please everyone,we all like things done in different ways,I like my Battleships like history strong and durable,other players more than likely look upon the naval game as an after thought,and more of a nuisance factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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