Error in Pz.Div.Escort Coy (?)

[winkelried]

Was just looking into the Panzer-Divisions Begleitkompanie (KStN No 126 of 1.2.1944) and there seems to be a discrepancy between the KStN and the implementation in CMBN:

1. (Schützen) Zug should have 3 (instead of 1) Panzerschreck and 3 (1) Panzergrenadier-Squads loaded on 3 (1) trucks. Platoon leader in Kübelwagen is ok. HMGs and mortars are ok.

2. (schw.Pz.Jäg.) Zug is correct except for the platoon leader who should have a Kübelwagen and that the PaK were towed by unarmored halftracks (which are substituted in CMBN by trucks).

3. (Flak.) Zug is missing for obvious reasons in CMBN.

4. (Erkunder) Zug should have no (3) Panzerschreck and the 3 Panzergrenadier squads should be mounted on Krad mit Seitenwagen - or at least Kübelwagen in CMBN.

[JonS]

I remember having a look at this a while ago - as far as I remember, no two of the PDECs in Normandy were the same, and none of them matched the KStn. I suspect BFC probably used a sort-of by-eye averaging to get a 'typical' PDEC.

[Boche]

BTW, what was the purpouse of PDEC and was is an established unit or was it sort of put together on the go?

[Rokko]

They were supposed to protect the divisional HQ, but often fought as frontline troops.

I've read a story about the 12th SS were 1 platoon of infantry from the divisional escort company supported by a platoon of light infantry guns managed to overun a British batallion HQ, catching them by suprise.

[winkelried]

I remember having a look at this a while ago - as far as I remember, no two of the PDECs in Normandy were the same, and none of them matched the KStn. I suspect BFC probably used a sort-of by-eye averaging to get a 'typical' PDEC.

Maybe. As a scenario designer I would prefer to get a unit as in the KStN and then I can change whatever is needed.

[winkelried]

They were supposed to protect the divisional HQ, but often fought as frontline troops.

I've read a story about the 12th SS were 1 platoon of infantry from the divisional escort company supported by a platoon of light infantry guns managed to overun a British batallion HQ, catching them by suprise.

yes. they were sometimes used as stop-gap reserve - probably they were also intended to be used like this. why leave 3 ATGs and 2 good infantry platoons unused?

Similar case is the the F.E.B. (Feldersatz Batallion - Field Replacement Batallion) which was sometimes used as a fifth infantry batallion.

i work in 11.PD (Southern France) and they had a Pz.Div.Begleit.Kp. with twice the allowed troops and they used its F.E.B. as normal Panzergrenadier Bn.

[Baneman]

Maybe. As a scenario designer I would prefer to get a unit as in the KStN and then I can change whatever is needed.

Fair enough, but in a scenario, you can add the missing bits, right ?

[winkelried]

Fair enough, but in a scenario, you can add the missing bits, right ?

Not really. I tried to add the two Panzergrenadier squads by using the bits you have: scout team, LMG teams etc. The weapons mix you get is pretty stupid. I'll use a panzergrenadier company (mot.) and change one platoon to be the anti-tank platoon. the weapons mix will be far better - although the splitting of the Erkundungs squad to fit the Kübelwagen is not trivial ...

[Battlefront.com]

Honestly I don't recall what the deal is with the Escort Company's current TO&E. It was long enough ago, and the TO&E so vast, that I don't remember why I made the decisions I made.

As a rule I use established TO&E (in this case KStN) for the TO&E and let designers make their own modifications. However, in cases where the official TO&E is not general use I tend to go with what is typical. Otherwise the game starts to look wrong from a historical standpoint. Remember, most players don't have a clue what TO&E was used in real life, so if we put in "fantasy" TO&E then we're not helping our customers experience things the historically correct way.

The Escort Companies in Normandy were incredibly varied so maybe I just chose the one that was most common. I'll look into it again.

Steve

[winkelried]

Honestly I don't recall what the deal is with the Escort Company's current TO&E. It was long enough ago, and the TO&E so vast, that I don't remember why I made the decisions I made.

As a rule I use established TO&E (in this case KStN) for the TO&E and let designers make their own modifications. However, in cases where the official TO&E is not general use I tend to go with what is typical. Otherwise the game starts to look wrong from a historical standpoint. Remember, most players don't have a clue what TO&E was used in real life, so if we put in "fantasy" TO&E then we're not helping our customers experience things the historically correct way.

The Escort Companies in Normandy were incredibly varied so maybe I just chose the one that was most common. I'll look into it again.

Steve

the challenge with this approach is, that it is difficult to add the two squads (e.g. all the pieces we have don't have an NCO) for the 1st platoon. And to split the third platoon to fit into Kuebelwagen. I "built" the particular Panz.Div.Begleit-Kp. using a motorized Panz.Gren.Btl. The "trick" to get the third platoon into the Kuebelwagen is to given them only 80% of the effectives and then to split the squads. Did this too to get a VW Recon company. It's almost the same as with the Sd.Kfz.250 recon company.