Rommel Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 I thought or read that the stug crews used a grey uniform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonFox Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 It was soon brown when they saw my Hellcats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Will wrestling continue to be as popular into the next century?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Early in the war it would have been black. Later, it was what ever bits an pieces were issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Ooops... must have had something else in my clipboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Now that we know you're into wrestling, you realize your credibility on this forum is totally shot! Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Damn, damn, damn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 That's funny... a wrestling man. Anyway I've never heard of grey uniforms for panzer units. Could it be that some StuG's were issued to the Luftwaffe perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Fallschirmpanzer-Division "Hermann Goering" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 That was my guess yes. I read that the jägers got deployed remarkably many times from ground. Maybe this was because the germans lost air superiority? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veer Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Yes and No Howard. After Crete (and the horrible casualities suffered there), German Fallschirmjager divisions were delpoyed mainly as regular infantry divisions. There high training and excellent weapons made them very effective (example: Mt. Casino). As the war progressed, and the German army was strapped for replacements, surplus luftwaffe personal (ground crews, etc) were drafted into Luftwaffe Feild divisions. They were well equppied, but lacked training. While the loss of air supremacy by the Luftwaffe was reason why these troops were incorporated into the army, Lack of manpower replacements and the personal ambitions of Goering (who was jealous of the SS) were equally important reasons why these troops were employed as infantry. The HG division was formed from a mix of luftwaffe personal and Fallschirmjager troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 3, 1999 Author Share Posted December 3, 1999 Ah yes but wouldn't herman goerings division be in the blue? ok now I have actual PROOF! go to this site and they have a picture from some war muesem with the dummies inside wearing the grey uniforms, almost like jumpsuites, according to this site, the stug crews were considered technically elite artillery troops, because of their designed role as infantry support. but don't take my word check it out for yourself. p.s. I couldn't care one way or another, just wanted to get a rise out of fionn. http://www.achtungpanzer.com/stug.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Christ according to information from Achtung Panzer the StuG III was lethal against even tanks in the right hands. I must confess I never really saw the StuG as nothing more than a mobile gun, not a potent tank killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT Posted December 3, 1999 Share Posted December 3, 1999 Howard, the Stug was very effective, esp in defense. The low profile made it both had to spot and to hit. When it has produced with a long barrelled 75 it had almost the same hitting power as a standard tank. Michael Wittman, the famous tanker, got most of his kills in the Stug. It is where he started. There was a great story about his on History Channel a few months ago. It seems that his tactics with a Stug carried over with him when he "graduated" to normal tanks. He was reported to treat a tank like a stug. He turned the tank to a threat instead of turning the turret. Of course two factors added in this tactic. Turning the body meant that you kept the heaviest armor at the threat and the turrets were slow to turn. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 4, 1999 Share Posted December 4, 1999 Sadly I don't have history channel but I do got Discovery which has some excellent documentaries too. Let's hope History Channel goes digital soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 4, 1999 Author Share Posted December 4, 1999 Hey mike, was the show that talked about Michael Wittman's tactics "tank battles: from D-Day to victory"? Says it has a ton on tactics, footage and interviews with survivors. Also wouldn't it be cool if in CM the variations of the stug even had one with the finish, logs strapped to the sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted December 4, 1999 Share Posted December 4, 1999 StuG crews wore grey because they were part of the Artillery and not the panzertruppen. There was some discussion about integrating them with the panzers, but the artillerymen protested because the StuG was the only way for artillerymen to earn Knight's Crosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 4, 1999 Share Posted December 4, 1999 LOL Rommel, StuG began the war as mobile artillery and up until the middle of the war they really were exclusively manned by artillery troops. There's a great story about Guderian asking for rationalisation of armoured vehicle command and one of the arty officers at the fuehrer's conferenc complaining that service in StuGs was now the only way for an arty officer to get the Knight's Cross which nicely shows the delineations in early 1943. From late 43 onwards StuGs got much more into the Panzer school of responsibility and were less arty units and more cheap tank killers. StuG crew wore special grey uniforms, sweaters, coveralls, tank uniform, infantry uniforms and as the war went on all variations in between . I remember one picture I like in a book I have with a StuG commander wearing a late 1930s officer's cap, a big woolen sweater, leather pants and riding boots. He was pretty much mixing personal clothes, pieces of a late 30s artilleryman's uniform, a couple of bits from a Panzer uniform etc. I've even seen guys wearing purely infantry uniforms crewing StuGs. Wittman got most of his tanks in his Tiger after being transferred from a StuG IIRC. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 4, 1999 Share Posted December 4, 1999 Fionn is correct about the uniform, but this was used by all "assault gun" crews. It was basically the same cut as the black panzer uniform, but field gray instead. StuGs, Marders, armored cars, and even some TD crews were issued this uniform. We aren't using the correct uniforms in all cases because it was a detail with an unfavorable pain in the butt to game value ratio BTW, many of the disbanded Luftwaffe field units, ground crews, rear echelon, etc. soldiers found their way into SS service. A large chunk of the 17th SS PzGren division was fleshed out with such replacements. So much for the false understanding that the SS was all hardcore volunteers! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 4, 1999 Author Share Posted December 4, 1999 wow a reply from both fionn and steve score! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 5, 1999 Share Posted December 5, 1999 17th SS PzGren.... hmmm, sounds familiar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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