Internet Play

[Pixman]

Question: Will there be a site set up for us to meet and play on the Internet? Something similar to Sierra's WON site perhaps? The CWG2 WON site has been a smashing success and I have met a lot of nice folks there similar to here. Of course, there we can chat and fight battles.

I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere and I missed it.

Pixman

[Mike D]

Pixman,

FYI. I believe the answer to your question is no. If I remember correctly it has been discussed at least once, if not 2 or 3 times, and BTS said they were not going to do this since they wanted to focus their attention on developing games. I certainly hope they do just exactly that. There are far too few really good computer wargames out there and still fewer programmers that really know how to develop one. Case in point, just look at what amounts to mostly crap on the store shelves when it comes to wargames. In my most humble opinion most of them suck. I would much rather see CM2 and the other great games that these guys will probably come up with being developed, rather than have them "wasting" their time with such trivialties. Someone else will probably do it for them anyway, so why waste their great talent on such matters????? BTS, if I've got this wrong please correct me. Sometimes my little pea brain just doesn't seem to remember as well as it used to

Anyways, just my opinion in any event.

Mike D

aka Mikester

[Pixman]

Mike, thanks -- I think.

I asked a simple question. Why such a harsh response? Trivialities? I don't think having a post release place to meet, chat and play is any more of a "triviality" than this discussion site is -- which, by the way, pulls significant time away from the developers of CM1, much less CM2.

I'm also not sure why you went off on a rant about how most other wargames suck. I hope you are not referring to CWG2 because, though by no means perfect, it is an excellent game overall -- played by some excellent generals at an excellent (and free) gaming site. If you have never tried it, I would recommend it highly.

Maybe I am missing something here. Is BTS not making CM playable over the internet? If they are, then how/where will the two players interface? These are straight questions. I would appreciate a straight answer from anyone willing to provide it.

By the way, I did scout back through to find some reference to internet play on this board. I did not see it. Sorry if I offended anyone bringing it up again.

Pixman

[CRourke]

Funny, I remember agreeing with CM's choice last time this was mentioned. But now that I'm a few months older and oh so wiser, I'm not sure that I do.

I don't there's any need for BTS to come up with the CM equivilent of battle.net or bungie.net or whatever. But I really think it would be handy to have a chatroom on this sight where players could meet. We can all enter IP addresses in by hand, or email addresses, or however you play, but I think it would be really useful to have a place to go to find opponents and to talk about the game.

At the very least, it would be good to have a message board devoted to finding opponents and a maintained list of ICQ numbers.

Considering that CM will probably not have the sales of say diablo, or myth, its important that players get as much help as they can finding opponents. Plus, this sort of thing can make the gamer's into more a community, which, at least for me, adds alot of life to a game.

I don't believe this sort of thing would be very expensive to do, admittedly I have next to nil experience with www board software, but its seems like it should be an order of magnitude cheaper than the "game server" type solution.

Chris

[Pixman]

Thanks for the response Chris. I can tell you first hand the value of having a community of like minded gamers that can meet, discuss and play at a site. Just picture this site with all of us able to discuss strategy real time and invite each other to do battle. It's awesome.

I do not know what it takes to program but, in the long run, I believe it would enhance battlefront's success greatly.

I am not in any way suggesting that BTS divert resources to this if they do not already have it planned. I really just wanted to know how I can hook up with some of you guys when the game is released so that I can shoot at you.

My needs are simple.

Pixman

[Fionn]

Pixman,

I don't think we can expect to see a dedicated game server due to the cost and resources needed for that AND the fact that since CM is h2h people meeting up via pre-arrangement will be good enough...

PBEM... I think PBEM is the best way to play CM... Otherwise you re gonna have to wait on others to finish looking at the movie, ordering their units etc etc etc..

As for a site having a board for CM players to put up challenges etc. I'm absolutely certain that that will occur as soon as the game reaches people .. It'll be the easiest way to meet your opponents so it will happen I'm sure.

[Pixman]

Thanks Fionn. Sounds fair enough.

PBEM -- I can see the merits. It is actually one of the aspects of CWG2 that did not work, which disappointed me greatly -- especially for big battles like Gettysburg or The Wilderness, where having longer to plot your moves is really nice.

I hope that we are not forced toward PBEM in CM just because it takes even an expedient player 20 minutes to plot a turn. Nothing in what I have read from BTS thus far gave me that concern. Now your response makes me wonder.

I know that CM will have time limits for Internet play. Maybe those will suffice to keep things moving. By the way, I like PBEM mainly because you can have 5 or 6 battles going on at one time and stay very busy at it. But sometimes I like to just sit down to an intense session of focusing in on one battle. I pray that CM will allow that to happen.

[Mike D]

Pixman,

I asked a simple question. Why such a harsh response? Trivialities? I don't think having a post release place to meet, chat and play is any more of a "triviality" than this discussion site is -- which, by the way, pulls significant time away from the developers of CM1, much less CM2.

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I appoligize if my response seemed harsh. Trivialities, yes. But again as I said that is just my opinion. I tend to play my games against friends that I know locally, so having big internet gaming sites dedicated to a game, or games, finding opponents, etc., really doesn't mean much to me. I have all the head to head action I have the time to play already lined up. As far as this site goes as I have stated here before I think this site has been great. However, I have also said that I believe that at some point BTS is going to have to not concentrate as much effort as they have here, and really concentrate hard on getting the game done. I know Steve said something to this effect several months ago in that he would be spending less time answering questions, etc., here on the board, and more time on helping out with the game. But much to his credit he has found/made the time to continue making this discussion board what it has been, terrific.

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I'm also not sure why you went off on a rant about how most other wargames suck. I hope you are not referring to CWG2 because, though by no means perfect, it is an excellent game overall -- played by some excellent generals at an excellent (and free) gaming site. If you have never tried it, I would recommend it highly.

_____________________________________________

Uhhhhhhh, was I ranting? Probably was I guess. As far as ranting goes that is just something that I like to do every now and again , but probably has more to do w/ dealing with the BS that goes on at work everyday. Again, sorry if you took it personally in any way. Many...., most..., oh well let's say many of them suck then. They are all fun to some extent, but very few, if any, of them offer what CM is going to offer. Great game play, wonderful and most needed realism and detail, and 3d graphics to boot. Many games such as Close Combat series, etc., fall way short in one or more of these areas, but again, that's just my opinion. Civil War General 2? I think that is the game you are referring to, right??? Never had the opportunity to play it. Unfortunately I don't have the time to check out and play as many games as I would like to. Might have to go take a look at this one though since I have heard some good things about it from others as well. Thanks for the tip.

_____________________________________________

Maybe I am missing something here. Is BTS not making CM playable over the internet? If they are, then how/where will the two players interface? These are straight questions. I would appreciate a straight answer from anyone willing to provide it.

_____________________________________________

I don't want to answer for BTS here, but I do believe the game is fully internet playable both via e-mail and head to head via TCP/IP I imagine. I believe if you look in the FAQ it states that they are doing this. As far as finding opponents to play I think BTS is leaving that up to the rest of us. I'm sure other boards dedicated to wargaming like www.wargamer.com will have areas dedicated to the game where you can find opponents. And if you still can't find anyone to play I will be more than happy to go a few rounds with you. This game is going to be so kick ass that I will probably end up eating my words and looking for anyone and everyone to play against on the internet

___________________________________________

My appolgies once again, I just quickly cruised through the FAQ and didn't see the part in there about head to head / internet play that I thought was there. Oh Steeevvvvveeeeee, looks like it might be time for an update, maybe?

_____________________________________________

By the way, I did scout back through to find some reference to internet play on this board. I did not see it. Sorry if I offended anyone bringing it up again.

_____________________________________________

Yes, I've tried to do this a couple of times myself when I was trying to think back to something that has been discussed. Usually kind of hard to find what you are looking for though. Probably I'm just to impatient to deal w/ it though.

In any event I wasn't offended by your post and I hope you were not offended by my reply.

Regards,

Mike D

aka Mikester

[This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 06-24-99).]

[Fionn]

Pixman,

Relax , just cause I say PBEM would probably be the BEST way IMO to play it (given the fact that I PAY per second for local phonecalls to my ISP and thus want to cut down costs) doesn't mean that's the only way ..

I remember BTS saying that we would be able to PBEM AND play H2H.. So no worries for you there ok?

Fionn

[Ken Talley]

I think I will throw in my 2 cents worth. I have played solitaire, PBEM, and internet H2H. Unfortuanately I haven't had the opportunity to play LAN games. The only AI I have every played that provided a challenge was Sid Meier's Gettysburg. Although CM may add to the list. PBEM is ok but waiting a day or more for a response really can take the edge off the game. Internet play has provided my most intense and enjoyable games with H2H CC2/Myth games on either the zone or bungie.net. Unfortunately, I doubt if I would have taken the time to play H2H if the zone or bungie net weren't available and easily accessible. I suspect CM could be very good H2H because of the simultaneous plot system. Both sides are busy viewing the movie and plotting their moves simultaneously. If the size of a particular CM scenario falls in the 15-20 minute category or less, I think CM would be very viable H2H. If this is true, and if BigTime can reach an agreement with the Zone or someone to host CM, the benefits would definitely be significant for internet players. As Pixman stated, a common meeting place provides both community and instant access to opponents at a moments notice. I haven't tried the TCP/IP/ICQ route. Seems like a lot of coordination required. Not to mention locating players. Although perhaps I should try it.

I feel sympathy for our friends in Europe with their pay by the minute access. Although I did recently read of some movement w/i Europe to adjust telecommunications charges to the unlimited access that we have in America. So keep your fingers crossed or better yet, go to the streets, man the barricades and demand unlimited access.....

My two cents worth,

Ken

[This message has been edited by Ken Talley (edited 06-24-99).]

[CRourke]

It was my experiences with the above mentioned Sid Meier's Gettysburg that led me to the conclusion that there has to be a better way.

With SMG there was a dedicated gaming server of sorts on MPlayer. But it was slow to the point of being unusable and full of rather immature and annoying players. Most people kept a list of ICQ numbers of other potential players. This worked, slightly, but it was a major pain to maintain it, and if you let it slip for a month you'd find that it was out of date anyway. There has got to be a better way.

PBM is nice and all, but in all honesty, I'm a very impatient person. And the weplan/wego nature of CM is really perfect for internet play.

Chris

[Boris Balaban]

My 2 cents in PBEM.

I have email and my friend also has email and one or two night of the week we keep the internet open for several hours and play severl turns of EMPIRE DELUXE (3 games at the same time) so by the end of the night I would have played 12 or more moves.

[Moon]

I've never used any of these MPlayer, blahblah.com sites for multiplayer and wonder why people keep asking for them? All you need is ICQ, a place to register to as player (e.g. wargamer.com or maybe battlefront.com?) so that others can find you... and there you go. One guy hosts, the other joins... and usually it's also a much more stable and fast connection than going through some other site.

But with CM where you can command 1000+ men per side I am wondering if H2H would be the best way to play it? I would share Fionns opinion that probably PBEM is better - but I guess before the game is out there is no point to fight about it? Good that there will be both options, ne pas?

[Mike D]

While I'm sure that I and my wargaming buddies will do the head to head thing w/ CM, I'm pretty sure for the most part we will go for the play by email as well. Hard to find that dedicated couple of hour block of time to devote to head to head play all that often. Which reminds me of a question I asked BTS sometime back and don't recall it ever being answered; If we start a game head to head can we at some point (say turn 3) switch to play by e-mail, and then back again to head to head (say turn 8)? Also, if we start via e-mail and play turns 1 and 2 can we then play turns 3-6 head to head one night and then switch back to via e-mail when we are ready to quit for the night and save the game? I would certainly like to see this since I would agree that H to H will probably be a more interesting gaming experience, but unfortunately will almost certainly end up playing much of the time via e-mail. I think this would give us as players a lot more flexibility in how we can play and complete the game in a timely fashion. Not sure what programming / time resources would be required to do this, but I know I and my friends would certainly use it if it were available. Anyone else out there think that they would use such a feature???

Regards,

Mike D.

aka Mikester

[Doug Beman]

I like MikeD's idea about being able to PBEM for awhile, until the players have a free night to hook up and play direct. It seems like it would be good because, in the early PBEM turns, not much (probably) would be happening, so there would be a lesser amount of tension and "I hope my guys shoot straight" (or whatever you think about while playing)

Then, when things start heating up, you could go H2H to keep things rolling along. That would help the players stay focused, and without PBEM's delay, there would be less "now what was I trying to do again?"

It would also enable the more committed [to the game, not for mental defects ] of us to sleep better, because we wouldn't stay awake worrying if we gave the "right" orders to that platoon of TDs.

Just my ,02 DM (to continue the German slant of late)

DjB

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A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing personal opinion.

remove the caps letters in my address to email me

[Guest Big Time Software]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If we start a game head to head can we at some point (say turn 3) switch to play by e-mail, and then back again to head to head (say turn 8)? Also, if we start via e-mail and play turns 1 and 2 can we then play turns 3-6 head to head one night and then switch back to via e-mail when we are ready to quit for the night and save the game?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes to all. You have to save the game, then "end" it, then reload it. The program asks you what kind of 'connection' you want and this is where you make the change to email, or H2H or whatever.

Charles

[Mike D]

Way cool. Thanks Charles. Sorry if you guys had already told us you were going to do this and I missed it.

Mike D

aka Mikester

[Guest Big Time Software]

Wow, sorry I got into this discussion late...

We are hoping to get support for something like Kali. This is something that doesn't appear to be too difficult to put in, and it doesn't cost us anything (M*Player isn't free for us. Invite only I'm sorry to say). We don't know if this will go in rev 1, but it could be released as a patch. Anyhoo, it is something we would like to support.

CGW2 and WON... I know it well. Too well, as I was the Producer for it I can't tell you how many late nights it took for us to get that sucker working.

Steve

[Pixman]

All I can say Steve is thanks for the late nights spent getting WON working with CWG2. The combination has been the dominant source of recreation for me over the past 15 months. And I am still not tired of it -- by a long shot.

In fact, I'm headed there now to see if I can drum up an opponent for Champion Hill. Obviously, if you have kept tabs on the success of WON, you know the merit of my wishes to see a similar forum for CM.

By the way, Ironrod is alive and kicking -- doing an excellent job of handling threads like these at the Impressions site for CWG3. In fact, he is interim producer for CWG3 while Impressions focuses on getting Pharoah to market.

Hmmmm.....CM and CWG3. I may never leave the house again. Gotta get me an extracomfy chair.

Pixman

[Strider]

I belong to CCOC (a Close Combat club). What they did was that a member established a web site and the others submitted their ICQ numbers. In your 'info' tab you entered info about the game(s) you play so that when you contact another ICQ player they can check why you are interested in adding you.

What I found was, that by entering ICQ players to your contact list, and over time, you find quite a few players who are 'online' at similar times you are and can make better judgments on who to take on H2H. Since PBEM is an option, you can also leave messages 'offline' to players who you have 'heard about' from others who have direct playing expirence with. This 'list' is a very good way to make these contacts since it really isn't feasible to search thru individual threads trying to compile an ICQ list. It is necessary to post the web address of the member (every so often) who is hosting the site so new members are aware that something like it exists. I don't have the knowledge (yet) to maintain such a site, but I'm sure there are a number of you who do