lettowvorbeck Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 1. With the newly adjusted Bulgarian entry: I like it better. However, the Bulgars came into the war in late Nov/Early Dec 1915 after Serbia had already surrendered. This seemed too late, given that one of their war aims was a chunk of Macedonia. On the other hand, I have no idea if the AI controlled Entente had used diplomatic pressure to keep them out (Bill, is this something the AI will even do?). This is just one game, though, and might be an outlier. IMO, a chance of late entry is legions better than having them come in in 1914 like they did in v1.04. 2. Rumania: I still don't have a grasp of exactly what external factors beyond a Gallipoli capture swing Rumania as they often act in a manner contrary to their self interest. Historically, they gambled that A-H was done for, but even though their war went disastrously they at least had evidence of A-H teetering on the brink. In my 1.05 game they came in a little early, but at a terrible spot, with A-H and the Germans armies completely ascendent on all fronts. The Russians were reeling, with their armies smashed on all fronts and losing territory uncontested. The Bolsheviks took over in Russia the same turn that Rumania joined. Of course, Russia's dropping out of the war completely was a surprise at the time and we can't expect the Rumanians to see into the future, but I think one of the problems with Italian and Rumanian entries are they are still too closely tied to historical dates and not affected enough by the contexts of the time (i.e. for Italy and Rumania strings of A-H military disasters, and, for the Rumanians, the success of Brusilov's Offensive). How that could be represented in game terms, if even possible, I have no idea. 3. Surrenders When A-H surrendered, 8 Russian corps were shifted into Serbia, where they would have no way to get back home. This isn't disastrous but it is inconvenient if you need them to continue the fight with the Germans. I suppose you could assume they are there to secure Russia's interests in the Dardanelles (but 8 corps is a large force). To eliminate problems, however, I think I would prefer that all units be sent back to the home country. What dates have you guys been getting with Bulgarian entry in your 1.05 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted May 27, 2012 Share Posted May 27, 2012 3. Surrenders When A-H surrendered, 8 Russian corps were shifted into Serbia, where they would have no way to get back home. This isn't disastrous but it is inconvenient if you need them to continue the fight with the Germans. I would love to get a decision in cases like this (country surrenders, units get placed out of the surrendered country). Something like "pay amount x to get those units (which have to move out of the surrendered country) instantly into the next turns replacement pool". If answered no, the units should come into the replacement pool several turns later (because they have to move on by foot and carriages ("no") instead of trains ("yes") player should be informed where his units will placed. It is a bit of work to get units back from a place where you wouldn't want them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 What about making the romanians interested in joining the war by taking a pick in the AH territory that russia hold, like, the same way it works to the italians. When the russians take key positions in AH territory, that could force the romanians to join earlier, and the hold of less important towns could make a lot of diference, like been the reason for romania to join in the historical date. Also, AH NM could be a factor, let's say, if it drops less than 60% from mid-late 1915 foward and russia has some AH territory, like gallician oil fields, Romania start to join in, that add some good reason to not make the desicion to give over territory to Italy. haven't played any games with 1.05, so I can't say anything about the other probs, I just hope bulgaria is all ok now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettowvorbeck Posted June 2, 2012 Author Share Posted June 2, 2012 K, I like your thoughts on this. Tying it to territory plus NM, with the latter having the cool dual effect of forcing the A-H player to think again about ceding territory to Italy. In terms of what territorial points to choose, I am thinking something like the oil fields (like you say), Lemberg, and Pryzmsl cumulatively starting a slow clock [like Belgrade does for Serbian intervention but even slower]. This gives extra incentive for the A-H player to retain or recapture these sites. There could also be big boosting triggers beyond the Carpathians that might tip intervention quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Hi Regarding Romanian war entry, here are the relevant factors. Note that these don't take into account player's use of diplomacy: Any surrenders to the Entente cause a 3-5% increase in Romanian activation towards the Entente. From 1st Jan 1916, there is a 50% chance of a 20-35% swing towards the Entente if there are Russian units within two tiles of Klausenberg, Przemysl or Rovno. There will also be a 50% chance of a 3-8% swing per turn thenceforth, for as long as there are Russian units within two tiles of Klausenberg, Przemysl or Rovno. Finally, an Entente capture of Gallipoli would swing Romania by 30-45% towards the Entente. I've been immediately attracted to the idea of making Romania lean towards the Entente if Austria-Hungary gives away Trento-Trieste, as Romania had designs on some of the Empire's territory, e.g. Transylvania, and this move would have awakened their own ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 From 1st Jan 1916, there is a 50% chance of a 20-35% swing towards the Entente if there are Russian units within two tiles of Klausenberg, Przemysl or Rovno. There will also be a 50% chance of a 3-8% swing per turn thenceforth, for as long as there are Russian units within two tiles of Klausenberg, Przemysl or Rovno. These are very interesting, add to a lot to my strategy. Also, I recall one mobilization script, where, if przemysl fall, Italy moves 2%-5% 4%-8%, don't recall the numbers, this should be the same for Romania. I've been immediately attracted to the idea of making Romania lean towards the Entente if Austria-Hungary gives away Trento-Trieste, as Romania had designs on some of the Empire's territory, e.g. Transylvania, and this move would have awakened their own ambitions. Don't mention lol, let the romanian have dracula once and for all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettowvorbeck Posted June 8, 2012 Author Share Posted June 8, 2012 Thanks for the explanation. I do agree with the Rumanians getting greedy if A-H is in the territorial giveaway mood! They had huge numbers of ethnic Rumanians within the empire. Hi Regarding Romanian war entry, here are the relevant factors. Note that these don't take into account player's use of diplomacy: Any surrenders to the Entente cause a 3-5% increase in Romanian activation towards the Entente. From 1st Jan 1916, there is a 50% chance of a 20-35% swing towards the Entente if there are Russian units within two tiles of Klausenberg, Przemysl or Rovno. There will also be a 50% chance of a 3-8% swing per turn thenceforth, for as long as there are Russian units within two tiles of Klausenberg, Przemysl or Rovno. Finally, an Entente capture of Gallipoli would swing Romania by 30-45% towards the Entente. I've been immediately attracted to the idea of making Romania lean towards the Entente if Austria-Hungary gives away Trento-Trieste, as Romania had designs on some of the Empire's territory, e.g. Transylvania, and this move would have awakened their own ambitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 These are very interesting, add to a lot to my strategy. Also, I recall one mobilization script, where, if przemysl fall, Italy moves 2%-5% 4%-8%, don't recall the numbers, this should be the same for Romania. Good point, that makes complete sense and I'll add that in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbart Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 2. Rumania: (...) In my 1.05 game they came in a little early, but at a terrible spot, with A-H and the Germans armies completely ascendent on all fronts. The Russians were reeling, with their armies smashed on all fronts and losing territory uncontested. The Bolsheviks took over in Russia the same turn that Rumania joined. Of course, Russia's dropping out of the war completely was a surprise at the time and we can't expect the Rumanians to see into the future, but I think one of the problems with Italian and Rumanian entries are they are still too closely tied to historical dates and not affected enough by the contexts of the time (i.e. for Italy and Rumania strings of A-H military disasters, and, for the Rumanians, the success of Brusilov's Offensive). How that could be represented in game terms, if even possible, I have no idea. ? I made the same expiriance with an rumanian entry that can only be called suicidable - with russia close to zero % national moral, german and austrian forces near St. Peterburg and Kiew. I think it is common sense, that the rumanians entered the war, (on a high abstactional level) because they thought that russia would crush austria and they could gain a piece of the cake. Maybe it could be a clever way to trigger rumanian entry through an comparison of austrian and russian national morale. for example the script could start working 1916 and giving x percent to the war level of romania, if the russian morale is higher than the austrian. Why morale? Because it is the simpliest way to measure lost units and/or territory in the past - which could be translated into expectations of neutral countries for the future! A significant lower russian morale should at least be a showstopper for rumanian entry.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbart Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 3.Surrender: When A-H surrendered, 8 Russian corps were shifted into Serbia, where they would have no way to get back home. This isn't disastrous but it is inconvenient if you need them to continue the fight with the Germans. I suppose you could assume they are there to secure Russia's interests in the Dardanelles (but 8 corps is a large force). To eliminate problems, however, I think I would prefer that all units be sent back to the home country. ? Yeah, i´ve seen the same (quite disturbing) things happen in a game against Xwormwood. I agree, that there should be a at least a decision event, giving a choice, where the forces should be deployed. In general it is a very unsatisfying solution, to kick all forces out of the surrendering country by the game engine: in my game, the russians were on their way for an powerfull offensive into southern/eastern german belly - and on the next term they went on a vaccation to serbia and russia - well - good luck for the germans, but a bit broken in game terms. I think it is a fundamential point, that to surrender - your opponent must accept your surrender. It is not ok, that the LOOSING country expells all enemy forces just by loosing. in this game, there are decision events for many occasions (which i like alot) so why not a decision event: Accept the surrender or not. if it is accepted, the forces will be handled as mentioned above, if not the war goes on normal, and the event "accept surrender" will plop up again in the next turn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ah, the mighty Svenbart has finally taken his rightful place in the forum of command. Welcome aboard, brother! And i see that you brought an excellent point for your first entry, thanks for this nice welcome present! I wonder if a neutral Romania could, under all the right conditions, even join the Central Powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbart Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ah, the mighty Svenbart has finally taken his rightful place in the forum of command. Welcome aboard, brother! And i see that you brought an excellent point for your first entry, thanks for this nice welcome present! /QUOTE] hihihi, thank you! (with strong german accent) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Ah, the mighty Svenbart has finally taken his rightful place in the forum of command. Welcome aboard, brother! And i see that you brought an excellent point for your first entry, thanks for this nice welcome present! I wonder if a neutral Romania could, under all the right conditions, even join the Central Powers? I think that the romanian people is enemy of everyone, the russians, bulgarians, austrians, ottomans.... It's possible, if you really think about it, if russia is bellow 10% NM, I think that Romania would look and say, hey, let's join CP and take our part in Russia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would go even further. If AH would have given into the Rumanians wish to receive recognition of its rights over the (AH) territory of Trannsylvania, they might have even brought into the CP camp, especially if they would have gotten promised Bessarabia once Russia had been defeated. Could make a nice DE, just like the Italian one about Trento & Trieste. If Rumania joins the Entente, it would be nice if -once Rumania is about to be defeatet- the UK could order ieutenant-Colonel Christopher Thomson to destroy the Rumanian oil wells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbart Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I would go even further. If AH would have given into the Rumanians wish to receive recognition of its rights over the (AH) territory of Trannsylvania, they might have even brought into the CP camp, especially if they would have gotten promised Bessarabia once Russia had been defeated. Yes, and if Germany had offered Denmark York and Ireland, they might have joined the CP also - Just joking. Problem i see with your proposal is, that this is game about the first world war and not about "what if" alternate histories that where not really in question at that time. That means, Rumania should only have the opportunity to join the CP, if there is evidence, they really thought about joining the CP at any point, not only, because it would be fun and somehow understandable if they would. With my point about Rumania not joining the Entente while Russia is on it´s knees i see this criterion fullfilled: i think it would be historically correct, that rumania wouldn´t have started war with CP, if russia would be dead for all to see - even if there is a russian unit close to Rovno or Clausenberg... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 That means, Rumania should only have the opportunity to join the CP, if there is evidence, they really thought about joining the CP at any point, not only, because it would be fun and somehow understandable if they would. . I wouldn't want it any other way. And by the side, this Denmark remark was rubbish (RUBISH, RUBISH!). Everybody knows that Denmark aches only for peace, and to win a Swiss invasion, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbart Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I wouldn't want it any other way. And by the side, this Denmark remark was rubbish (RUBISH, RUBISH!). Everybody knows that Denmark aches only for peace, and to win a Swiss invasion, of course. Hahaha!!! Blackadder is still great! -> They don´t call you Clever Jake for nothing! Pete! -> What? Clever Pete! -> Oh, right, they don´t call you Clever Jake AT ALL! They call you Clever Pete!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xwormwood Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 off topic, sorry, but i couldn't resist: [Captain Darling is writing at his desk. There is a knock at the office door.] Darling Come! [bA enters the office.] Darling Ah, Captain Blackadder. BA Good morning, Captain Darling. Darling What do you want? BA You're looking so well. Darling I'm a busy man, Blackadder. Let's hear it, whatever it is. BA Well, you know, Darling, every . . . every man has a dream . . . Darling Hmmm . . . BA . . . and when I was a small boy, I used to watch the marsh warblers swooping in my mothers undercroft, and I remember thinking `Will men ever dare do the same?' And you know . . . [Darling rises from his desk.] Darling Oh, you want to join the Royal Flying Corps? BA Oh, that's a thought. Could I? Darling No, you couldn't! Goodbye! [Darling sits back down.] BA Look, come on, Darling, just give me an application form. Darling It's out of the question. This is simply a ruse to waste five months of training after which you'll claim you can't fly after all because it makes your ears go `pop'. Come on, I wasn't born yesterday, Blackadder. BA More's the pity, we could have started your personality from scratch. So, the training period is five months, is it? Darling It's no concern of yours if it's five years and comes with a free holiday in Tunisia, contraceptives supplied. Besides, they wouldn't admit you. It's not easy getting transfers, you know. [Darling returns to his work.] BA Oh, you've tried it yourself, have you? [Darling breaks his pencil.] Darling No, I haven't. BA Trust you to try and skive off to some cushy option. Darling There's nothing cushy about life in the Womens Auxiliary Balloon Corps. [bA raises his eyebrows at this.] Darling Ah . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kommandant Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Darn, inner jokes in the forum, this remids me of me and my brotha... except he don't play SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbart Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 ]off topic, sorry, but i couldn't resist: Me too, me too! Melchett: Thank you, George. At ease, everyone. Now, where's my map? Come on. Darling: Sir! [Darling hands Melchett his map.] Melchett: Thank you. [Melchett unfurls the map the wrong way.] Melchett: God, it's a barren, featureless desert out there, isn't it. Darling: The other side, Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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