Guest aaronb Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Three cheers for all involved! A tremendous effort, especially considering a lot of it was volunteer. For me, two things stand out in this battle: 1) the players own morale, as reflected in the tone of their postings, was closely tracked by the global morale of the game. This demonstrates tremendous immersion and realism. 2) the simultaneous kill at the end of the game - show me another system where this can happen in such a realistic way. Well. When the demo is out (and I've pre-ordered long ago), we'll be converting our primary (NT) server to dual-boot so I can play CM on weekends. Don't tell my business partners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Fionn, Martin, Patrick, Steve and Charles; My heartfelt thanks to all of you for your efforts, your diligence and your humour. The AAR's has been like a constant infusion of some wierd drug. I'm at a total loss for what to do now that they're gone. I'm hooked and beginning to feel the abstinence already. Thanks again for a wonderful trip to CM-land. Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Thanks for the AAR's guys. They were a lot of fun to read, and were well written. One of things that I liked was the AAR's being written *as* the orders and action phases were happening respectively for each turn. This way there was no benefit of hindsight when writing your thoughts turn by turn, but instead we saw exactly what you were thinking and planning *before* you had the benefit of seeing how the combat in the next action phase would turn out. I think that made a big difference in the quality and immersion of the reports. And, of course, the AAR's gave me a good feel for what CM will play like (only a lot more so in person, I'm sure ). Sounds like tremendous fun. And what's REALLY cool about this whole thing is that not only will CM look great, sound great and have an incredible interface but it will ALSO be *super* realistic. Wow. There's never been a wargame of this sort that could really claim that before. Who says you can't have your cake and eat it, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTRock Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 THE CRITICS AGREE CM IS A HIT! *I had a HUGE amount of fun with this even though I ended up losing!* Fionn: Army of The Third Reich *great fighting, mate!* Moon: Rooting fan *Not only was this immensely enjoyable reading, but hopefully we readers will survive a little better from your insightful commentary!* D.C. Chronical *Excellent job Fionn, Moon, Steve, & Charles...Thank y'all!* Strider Today *Yes, this was a war movie. I think that we should consider posting these as movies!* Chris Jenkins of the Jenkins Extreme *Im sure I'm not the only one who was motivated to purchase CM because of the AARs. It was Fionn's post to csipg.war-historical that tipped me off to the AARs!* guachi International *It's got me at a high pitch of anticipation...JUST for the demo, let alone the full game! * The Donan Word *It was a great story and has been fun to watch unfold!* The Bil Hardenberger Report *Thanks again for a wonderful trip to CM-land!* The Sten Examiner FIVE STARS***** Read it and weep with joy BTS you have loyal followers of this game. When I first saw that there were AARs I thought; what's the big deal? Then I got into them. I was cheering for the good old Allies and must admit it was like a good war movie as Chris pointed out! I was on the edge of my seat and started cursing my phone connection because it wasn't downloading the last duel of the tanks fast enough! I like everyone else here are waiting for that demo! No, not just the demo the game itself!. I was convinced when I first saw this site that this is the Wargame of 2000 it will stand as a land mark for the wargames of the future. BTS You are the future for Wargames! Three Cheers for BTS and are Pals who did the AARs Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! Hip Hip Hooray! If your ever up this way in Canada let me know I'll buy you a round to.* My 2cents Daily Oh, uh by the way I'd be more than happy to be one of the next hosts for the next AAR... PS. I think the Wargame movie posting is a good idea although I'm sure it would eat you guys out of a harddrive hehehe.. ------------------ Sgt. Rock Says " War is Hell, but games are fun " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Excellent job Martin and Fionn. Your commitment to our "edutainment" is truly commendable. You both impressed me with yor ability to criticize your own actions and provide objective AARs, in spite of your obvious immersion in your own perspectives at the gameplay level. The 41 turns also allowed us to see both of you "learn as you go". I was SOOOO glad to see you Hunt with your last PzIV Fionn, rather than what you did with the Puma, lol!!! And Martin, it was refreshing to see you hold your Bazooka teams in hidden positions at the end, rather than try to rush them forward into the teeth of enemy infantry just to attempt a lucky shot. Also, as Fionn pointed out in his later AARs, your final machinegun placements were excellent compared tot he ones earlier in the game. While both of you and BTS have warned us all to "get ready to relearn", I sense that we have collectively already started on that process -- thanks to you and your generosity. Steve, thanks for "handicapping" (in the horserace sense) the game along as it progressed. By doing so, you prolonged the struggle and allowed us to see the entire battle unfold. As both combatants have said, the scenario was excellent in design. In looking back though, I think the Deutschers have an overall advantage in the game's final form. I say this because: 1. Fionn could not harass the Jabo in any way (but he could now), 2. Fionn could not push vehicles (but he could now), 3. Fionn (by his own admission) completely botched the initial town defense. Just based on the punishment his totally rattled Falschirmjaegers dealt out when Martin tried to get into the buildings, I can only imagine what they would have done had Fionn protected them more in the early going. My other comment on this is that unit quality seems to make a HUGE difference in this game. On the press to take the wall and the south hill, those veteran Panzergrenadiers looked like they could have taken the angle at Gettysburg singlehandedly (Setzen Sie Herr Pickett, wir nehmen der Wald, und die Hause, und der ganzen Stadt!!). I remember asking in a thread about whether the transition from level to level, with regard to unit quality, is linear. That is, is the difference between regular and veteran roughly the same as the difference between veteran and elite. Or are there quantum shifts at points along the continuum from Green to Crack? I'm not sure I ever saw an answer on that -- might have missed it though. Bottom line -- thanks guys. You inspire me. P.S. Fionn, I look forward to obliging you on your determination to face many of us in battle over the net. Is that a P47 I hear coming? Pixman ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTRock Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Maybe I missed it, but I'd like to hear Martins Two cents on this thread... ------------------ Sgt. Rock Says " War is Hell, but games are fun " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted October 20, 1999 Author Share Posted October 20, 1999 You must have missed it, SGTRock... Or maybe I missed another question to throw my two cents at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Congrats to both Fionn and Moon for a well played game. Reading those AAR's was like watching a movie unfold. Those AAR's were widely read..even a lot of the Gamestats folks were anxiously following the battle unfold! Again, great work guys, and how about an encore performance soon? RW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Thanks yet again for all the support. Makes us all the more happy to do these sorts of things for you guys. Pixman, nope... not linear. Also since there is a decent hunk of random variation in any given situation, even if the code said it was linear the actions wouldn't be. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Whoa!!! Man I love this game. I'm only 14 so most of my friend play FPS but I'd like to see a FPS with this amount of detail! HA! Any way keep up the good work. I need that demo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vetch Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Thanks for the "frickin' bone"!!!!!! Seriously, it was majorly fun to read all these and I really appreciate all the work everybody involved put into them. That ending with the two tanks facing off in a quick draw down main street was straight outta a western movie. Here's hoping this Halloween will be more "treat" than "trick" if ya know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Yeah, those AAR were cool. I read up to turn 12 or so tehn the final turn and aar, (just didn't have the time to read each one).. my heart rose and sank with each win and loss on each side! Fantastic! I can't wait to get hold of the beta demo and twiddle with scenarios and multi-play. Where is everyone going to meet to chat and organise games? PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Steve, thanks for the feedback on the linearity question. Sorry for the confusion regarding randomness. Strictly speaking statistically, I was referring to a linear relationship between the means of the normal distributions that would exist at each quality level(Assuming they are normal. If not, then when one unit acts way out of line from what we would expect at his quality level, we can yell, "He's skewed!!" Sorry, couldn't resist,lol ). Anyway, your answer is as I suspected. The law of diminishing marginal returns says that quality should not increase at the same rate as experience. That is, a soldier will benefit more from his first 20 days in battle than he will from days 130-150. This is born out in literature as well. Ambrose strongly emphasized in Citizen Soldiers how a soldier's probability of survival increased dramatically if he could just get through his first ten days in the lines. Bottom line, as always, is that you guys are on the ball once again. I suspect that the difference between Green and Regular (on average)is greater than between Regular and Veteran. Just a hunch that I do not expect you to respond on. We need some surprises after all. Again, great job all of you guys. Pixman ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Hofbauer Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 wanted to add to the list of grateful readers. THANKS ! btw, allied turn 40 doesn't load - or is that just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Hey BTS, PLease don't let make CM playable over Mplayer.com or Microsoft's 'Zone'!!!!They are slow and only support PC's. Are you going to include any type of miltiplayer software in the final realease. ie: a battlefront.com multiplayer service!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted October 22, 1999 Share Posted October 22, 1999 Easier would be a simple chat room, java i guess, and you log on and chat and then exchange IP addresses (some java chatrooms can be set up to tell you your ip) and then connect to someone, pretty straight forward. Otherwise it's just pass a file back and forth by email or icq. PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 22, 1999 Share Posted October 22, 1999 Pixman, you are so right about that. Veteran US units pretty much ignored "the new guy" until he managed to survive x# of days. Very much a sink or swim mentality. I suppose this is normal after you see so many fresh faces blown apart before you even get to know their names... There is a great book written about the psychological strain on the combat soldier. I think this was done as a result of Vietnam. Charles has it, but can't think of the title. Anyways, most of it wasn't really relevant to CM, but one thing was very interesting. There was a chart of "combat effectiveness" in terms of days in combat without rest. Took a fair number of days to get into things, then a period of peak performance, and then a VERY steep drop in effectiveness, to the point where the Vet would perform no better than a realitively fresh guy. After that it went to "Vegitative State" and that guy might as well paint a target on his forehead. Before WWII there hadn't been much research done because wars prior to the 20th century were not protracted, brutally impersonal affairs with nearly constant combat. Seems we are still learning. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted October 22, 1999 Share Posted October 22, 1999 "Seems we are still learning." Tis true, isnt it Steve. No matter what problems befall the world you can always be rest assured in knowing that there is someone out there dreaming up a technology that will better help in the killing of other people. The last 100 years really has been amazing from that respect. World War 2 really does show what the human race and achieve when it puts its mind to a single task....props to jets, 500 pound bombs to kiloton nuclear devices. If only we could put that intellegence to better work. Anyways, its Friday afternoon here in the land of Aus, and Im halfway through my first rum'n'coke of the day, so Ill shut up now, hehe. Dont get me wrong, I believe military technology development is a necisity in our society as it stand. It just seems that it is something the human race really excels at. [This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 10-22-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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