Turret angle

[dieseltaylor]

Interesting stuff. I wonder if someone has loaded a video of this on Vimeo or some other site?

[Vark]

I do love it when recognised defects, voiced by the systems operators are just dismissed as myths. I have talked to Veterans and they have talked about the drawback of the Garand ping, and pray tell what happens to a Tiger that has lost its mobility? No hydraulic pump, no power traverse, no compensatory track steering and engines however well armoured are quite prone to malfunction when something gives them a good thump. When all was sweetness and light the Tiger was a formidable and highly agile beast, trouble is this was rarely the case, especially as that agility came from highly engineered systems.

I only have one book about Tigers, which was given to me as a gift, Bruce Culver's "Tiger 1" by Ryton publications. Bit of a jack of all trades publication aimed really at modellers, but does have pages on the technical specifications of the beast along with photographs to support the text (8 pages on Access doors and escape hatches alone).

[Georgie]

Great story Badger Dog. Share some more if you have any. A thread "anecdotal stories" would be , I think, a very educational and interesting thread. There are probably other forum members with similar stories to share. The fact that the crew abandoned the undamaged M4 lends credence to your friends story.

[c3k]

Hi Ken ..

Off-topic and I don't really want to mix threads, but ...

I've read the same Internet legends and gossip. I don't know about it being myth, but I collect and own Garands, shooting them regularly at our local range. With some testing we did last summer, everyone could clearly hear the sounds of the garand ping out to at least 50 yards, even with everyone firing at once. We couldn't test further distances because of safety issues, but suffice to say, it is noticeable. Perhaps it's due to the very high pitched distinctive sound it makes, I don't know... but I could hear it, even with ear defenders on.

Regards,

Doug

I would submit, humbly, that the ear defenders ASSISTED with your being able to hear the "ping". You've got a nice collection of rifles. Go out to the range and burn off about 6 dozen rounds. Have your wife firing away with you. Tell her to shoot at the targets as if someone is trying to kill you. (Now, without ear defenders, how much ringing in your ears will there be? Yeah.) Have your wife signal when she hears your "ping". All while she is trying to keep up a volume of fire. (Simulating an "oh, crap, are they close!" engagement.)

In my experience, most range firing with small groups of family and friends is somewhat a turn-taking experience. No one else shoots while Uncle Buck is trying to get that bullseye. Slow, cadenced, firing. Ear plugs/defenders. Nah: burn that ammo! Yell a bit. You know, "Watch your flanks!", "What was that?", "Take THAT, and THAT, and THAT!".

The "ping" exists. However, how many COMBAT settings allow the ping to be heard, then to be acted on? (If 5 guys with Garands are shooting at me, do I wait for 3 pings, 4 pings, or all 5 pings? Yahtzee!

(If you need another trigger-puller to run this experiment, you just let me know! )

Ken

[c3k]

Ken,

Can you recommend a book or two about these big cat systems? You know the technical angle I am looking for. A "systems" book if you will. I would like to start a collection.

Also, My Uncle was fighting the Japanese on Okinawa and Siapan. Real close stuff. He did confirm to me that, on more than one occasion, a Jap would come out of the jungle with a suicide charge only after the 8th round ping. Of course it was very close quarters there with the jungle.

My apologies to the OP for getting off-topic.

The best single-source books would be by Jentz. (The hardcover ones published by Schiffer. He also put out some Stackpole (?) softcovers. They're okay, but not anywhere near as detailed as the hardcover ones.)

After Jentz, there are a lot of choices. Schneider, Speilberger pop to mind.

If your Uncle is still around, give him a "Thank you" for his service from me. I can't imagine how hard that must've been on him.

Ken

[dieseltaylor]

Haynes does have the advantage it is written with the benefit of renovating a running Tiger I - the one at the Bovington Tank Museum.

[c3k]

Vark,

It seems you're addressing me. I shall return the favor. There is a MYTH that the Tiger could ONLY rotate its turret with a hand crank. I attempted to clarify that bit of misinformation.

Are you claiming that the Tiger could only rotate its turret with a hand crank?

(Note: I was quite specific in my posting in stating that the turret would be rotated with hydraulics, wait for it, when they were operational. Now, I presuppose for many posters that they are non-native English speakers or that they may've misread a post or two. It's easy enough to do that. By "operational", that means the hydraulics were, wait for it, "OPERATING". The tank could be shut down, hiding. The hydraulics could be damaged. The engine could be kaput. Etc.)

On to the next fun point. The "Ping". Where did I say it did NOT occur?

I posited, and gave an example or two, of the REQUIREMENTS to TAKE ADVANTAGE of the "ping". Let me enumerate them, a bit more explicity:

1.) Awareness of what the "ping" means.

2.) Ability to hear the "ping".

3.) Tactical situation to enable firing upon, or closing with, the "ping".

4.) Knowledge that the "ping" is unsupported: taking advantage of the "ping" will not get you killed by the other 11 squaddies.

5.) Positioning and ability to react between the "ping" and the "shtink". (The "shtink" is the sound of the bolt chambering the first round of the just reloaded 8 round magazine.

So, Vark, how often were all 5 of those met? How many times did it occur in combat? Did I say it NEVER occurred? Or, did I imply that Hollywood has made it seem as if it were a common occurrence which is vastly over-played in every WWII movie made in recent times?

So, I hate to post a riposte, but I did not state or imply that hand-cranking was a MYTH. I did not state or imply that the "ping" was a MYTH.

Kind regards.

Ken

[Rake]

I'm not sure if the "gun" on the pixel Sherman is limited in its elevation travel and the shell just curves as it exits the barrel or if the gun actually exceeds the real life travel limits.

I don't think the animation exceeds the gun travel... it's just that the the shell doesn't come straight out of the end of the barrel.

If this issue can't be fixed, I think this a very good reason to allow bazookas and schrecks to fire from inside buildings. As it stands now, tanks can roll down city streets with near impunity. Realistic or not, infantry should have some way to counter a tank firing at elevations that mortars would have difficulty achieving.

[BadgerDog]

Realistic or not, infantry should have some way to counter a tank firing at elevations that mortars would have difficulty achieving.

An excellent point ...

Regards,

Doug