Baneman Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Further to this discussion, an event in a current PBEM ( v1.01 ). Earlier, one of my armoured cars surprised an American recon element and took out a Stuart and an M8. Some of the crew of each were killed, but at least 2 or 3 crew got away ( dawn battle ). A while later, a different armoured car ( Puma ) rounds a corner to find 2 crewmen casually crossing the road in front of it. It lets rip with the coax, but as is the way of MG fire (mostly), manages to find ways to shoot close to them without actually hitting anyone. The crew - to the undoubted rollicking enjoyment of my opponent - standing bolt upright in the middle of the road, MG fire screaming past them, level their pistols and take out the TC with a couple of rounds. AC panics, pops smoke and reverses away into hiding and the crewmen continue to walk away ( probably whistling ). Granted, the range was probably within 20m, but they took NO avoiding action like hitting the ground or running away ( one would think their morale would be a bit low having lost 50% of their mates when the tank brewed up - they may have been the AC crew though, don't know if they took casualties ). I can laugh about it, but it's still a bit of a teeth-gnashing moment. And I think it shows the crew "thing" is more a morale thing than a pistol-accuracy thing - although I would have thought that an MG would be more likely to hit someone at 20m ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've run a few preliminary handgun tests. I also tried some testing with the game. Real life will lighten up, in a relative sense, after Wednesday. I'll fine tune my parameters and then post my results, hopefully on Friday. Ish. (It takes close to 30 minutes to just begin one test run. Ugh. The test and collection takes about 45 minutes. That's one run, one gun.) Ken I dont know what you have set up there, but that is a load time that could drive someone crazy. You are one fine fellow to take the time to test it to whatever level you are planning there. I am the type that I will make 5 test lanes and run it 10-20 times, in the old cmx1 series. It was 10 test lanes, then in 10 runs I had 100 results. Maybe with the improvements in performance, I can do Ten lanes again without running into load time issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Further to this discussion, an event in a current PBEM ( v1.01 ). Earlier, one of my armoured cars surprised an American recon element and took out a Stuart and an M8. Some of the crew of each were killed, but at least 2 or 3 crew got away ( dawn battle ). A while later, a different armoured car ( Puma ) rounds a corner to find 2 crewmen casually crossing the road in front of it. It lets rip with the coax, but as is the way of MG fire (mostly), manages to find ways to shoot close to them without actually hitting anyone. The crew - to the undoubted rollicking enjoyment of my opponent - standing bolt upright in the middle of the road, MG fire screaming past them, level their pistols and take out the TC with a couple of rounds. AC panics, pops smoke and reverses away into hiding and the crewmen continue to walk away ( probably whistling ). Granted, the range was probably within 20m, but they took NO avoiding action like hitting the ground or running away ( one would think their morale would be a bit low having lost 50% of their mates when the tank brewed up - they may have been the AC crew though, don't know if they took casualties ). I can laugh about it, but it's still a bit of a teeth-gnashing moment. And I think it shows the crew "thing" is more a morale thing than a pistol-accuracy thing - although I would have thought that an MG would be more likely to hit someone at 20m ... I think the problem might be both morale and Accuracy. Makes it hard to prove in the test, you are normally going after one thing. I just know in the game until now , you best give plenty of respect to them pistol using units. They know how to fight:) Also glad to see that we have Bf's Interest and that we might get some unjustments once we know what we have here. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I've run a few preliminary handgun tests. I also tried some testing with the game. Real life will lighten up, in a relative sense, after Wednesday. I'll fine tune my parameters and then post my results, hopefully on Friday. Ish. (It takes close to 30 minutes to just begin one test run. Ugh. The test and collection takes about 45 minutes. That's one run, one gun.) Ken Bump, c3k, haver you done any testing since this post, it would be nice to see some of the conclusions you have made from testing It sounds promising that some adjustments are going to be made 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Yes, in spite of all the excitement about the CW module (proud owner), I continue to be interested in this too. It's funny the things that grab your attention. In the grand scheme, I don't know if anyone considers the über-pistols to be the most important bug or perceived issue. But if you slog your way through a tough scenario only to have your efforts and skill undone by a rampaging crew with pistol skills last seen in a spaghetti Western... Well, it puts a bit of a damper on things. Cool that BF has acknowledged there might be something to this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 This War Office research is very interesting as to hits on briefly seen target at close range. I have quoted the original as provided by the well-respected J D Salt who is the researcher who extracted the data that I have quoted in the thread WO 291/473 Performance of bullet weapons. On the matter of relative rate-of-fire of the Bren and MG-42, this paper says "...the advantages of the German gun over the Bren are due almost entirely to the belt feed rather than to the cyclic rate." A trial was conducted to find out, for closely-spaced standing targets, whether "traversing fire" – traversing the gun over an arc without aiming at individual targets – was superior to "service bursts", that is, firing short aimed bursts at individual targets, with the Bren gun. The results tabulated here show the expected number of casualties per 30 seconds' firing: Range (yds) Spacing in feet Service bursts Traversing fire 100................. 4 ...................9 .................16 100 .................8 ...................5 ..................8 200 .................4................... 8 .................12 200 .................8 ...................5.................. 7 Another trial concerned the relative accuracy of the Bren fired from the hip using ball and tracer ammunition. Firing at fixed targets at 35 yds and moving targets at 17 yds, an improvement averaging 24% was found firing tracer rather than ball. Yet another trial involved comparing the Sten gun against the service pistol. At a range averaging 10 yards, the following average results were obtained on targets exposed for an average of 5 seconds and moving across the line of fire at 10 feet per second: Type of fire.............Hits per shot ...Hits per engagement ...Shots per engagement Sten from the hip .....0.12 ..................1.86 ..............................16 Pistol from the hip ....0.08 ..................0.48 ................................5 Pistol, aimed ...........0.14 ...................0.71 ................................5 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfLoadingRifle Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 For the record, the Bren/LMG has been deemed too accurate - by some- for maximum effect. (With the change lever on rounds it is as accurate as a rifle.) The argument goes that what makes a gun effective is the beaten zone - or BZ - which is the elliptical area in which the fired rounds land. A larger (within reason) BZ = more enemy heads kept down. Personally, I don't think there is anything such as TOO accurate. Others may beg to differ:D Firing the Sten (or Stirling) from the hip is best done by putting the butt firm into the gut so that the weapon is central to the body, keeping a firm hold in the pistol-grip and bearing down hard on the mag housing or hand-guard to prevent the weapon climbing. The pistol results do not surprise at all. Most people cannot hit a barn door from inside a barn with one:eek: SLR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Bump, c3k, haver you done any testing since this post, it would be nice to see some of the conclusions you have made from testing It sounds promising that some adjustments are going to be made Yeah, I've done a bunch, but it's not where it needs to be. More work ahead... Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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