Veer Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 I know this is not CM related in the least, so sorry in advance. I just have a question for Fionn since his 'World of War' site seems to be down. I was wondering if you could direct me to a site (or post it if you have the info) which would include the German Order of Battle for the West (France/Germany) From D-Day to May 45. What I am specifically looking for is the 211 I.D. division and if it formed a part of OB West at any time during the above time period. I know it fought it Russia for quite a bit. Anyway, thanks a lot!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 never seen a site, but have seen couple books on the german order of battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 LOL.. OOB for the entire Western Front from 1944 to 1945 eh? . My, you DO like setting impossible tasks .. Suffice it to say this would be a major, major undertaking. So, rather than go through the locations of 100+ divisions etc over the course of an entire year ( the work of a book or thesis) I'll give you what Americans call the "cliff notes" version of 211th's history 211th Inf Div was one of the original divisions raised pre-September 1939. It comprised the 306th, 317th and 365th infantry Regiments and the 211th artillery regiment. It maintained it replacement training battalion in Wehrkreis VI (centred on Munster near the Netherlands). It fought as part of the Fourth Army's organic reserve during the invasion of France. Fourth Army as you may know was a component of Army Group A which drove towards Namur, Dinant and Sedan. Twelfth and Sixteenth armies were the other armies under Army Group A's command. Fourth Army comprised : V Corps (251 ID, 267 ID) VIII Corps ( 8 ID, 28 ID) XV Pz Corps ( 5 PzD, 7 PzD and 62 ID) II Pz Corps ( 12 ID and 32 ID) AND 4, 87, 211, 263 and 267 in Army reserve. 4th Army drove on Namur but I don't remember if the 211th was committed or not at that early stage. Regardless 211th WAS involved on the drive to Cambrai, Arras and Bethune to form the southern portion of the Dunkirk salient. 4th Army (with the now-committed 211th) then drove down the coast taking Dieppe, Le Havre and Cherbourg although it must be realised the Panzer Divisions did the brunt of the advancing. The infantry and 211th kinda lagged behind a bit at that stage. It then spent a little time in occupation and did NOT take part in Barbarossa It was sent to the Eastern Front in 1942 and fought there from January 1942 to December 1944 before being finally labelled destroyed. Destroyed can mean anything from "wiped out to the last man" to " we didn't want to keep sending reinforcements to the unit so we disbanded it and gave its men to the 350th division as replacements.. In this case it seems the unit was simply labelled destroyed as a staff matter since by January 1945 the 211th Volksgrenadier division was fighting in the same region as the 211th was in when it was labelled "destroyed". It fought on there till the end of the war. The Germans did a lot of "destroyed formation relabelling" between Sept and December 1944. Apart from some time in 41 when it was possible used as an occupation division the 211th seems to have been committed exclusively to the Eastern Front. Interestingly it ended it's life as part of Army Group South's, 8th Army. It was part of IV Panzer Corps and was merged with the remnants of 13 Panzer Division. The note I have made here is that the 211th VG Division was at Kampfgruppe strength at best and so was merged with 13th Panzer Division. This supports my assumption that the 211th Infantry Division was labelled destroyed when it was reduced to low manpower BUT was not actually destroyed and that the 211th VG division was basically the survivors of the 211th Infantry Division plus a few new recruits. FYI the 8th ended the war fighting near Vienna. I had intended to do a divisional history for all the divisions of the war along these lines and was starting with the Germans so I had this info lying around. It's solid but with my committments to CM and TGN I haven't had time to do much work on them recently. Mind me asking why you want the info? ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers [This message has been edited by Fionn (edited 12-15-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veer Posted December 16, 1999 Author Share Posted December 16, 1999 Thanks a lot Fionn!! - That was mostly what I was looking for! The reason is that we (over at the CC forum) are trying to Identify the unit marking (and thus the unit) of the men shown in this picture: The only info we have on it is this: Taken in Northern Europe sometime between 44-45. The above film was captured by the U.S 9th Armd Div - with the film still in the camera, so it must have been recent. This is obviously a summer or early fall photo, so most possibly it belongs to some German Formations which was engaged by the 9th Armoured in the late summer or early fall of 1944. We were pretty sure that the unit markings were that of the 211 I.D. Div - the horse -, but it is hard to tell since it seems to be only partly in view. Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 Ah, you should have said that initially. I have lots of German unit markers in my head or around. I'll head over to the CC4 forum and check it out and give a proper answer there. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesertFox Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 Friends From what I can say, the symbol is the white jumping Horse (called Niedersachsenross, lit. lower saxony steed) which still is the official symbol for the province of lower saxony / Germany. BTW: The town is called Muenster not Munster which is located in the Lueneburger Heide If you want to see a pic of the Niedersachsenross, go to http://www.bundesrat.de/Laender/index.html and follow the link to Niedersachsen. Helge ============== Sbelling chequed wyth MICROSOFT SPELLCHECKER - vorgs grate! - The DesertFox - Email: desertfox1891@hotmail.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule/2930/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest titan Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 hey where is the cc forum now! link anyone. ------------------ AUCK New Zealand Superpower waiting to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gespenster Posted December 16, 1999 Share Posted December 16, 1999 Veer, I didn't check to see if they had info on the 211th, but for future reference, allow me to recommend the following website: http://www.uwm.edu/People//jpipes/start.html This is the German Armed Forces in WWII website, and it is quite well done ... it is loaded with tons of information on all branches of the German Military during WWII includeing many individual Unit histories, medals and awards, even notes from vets and more ... I hope you enjoy it. ~JT ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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