dquinn63 Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Am a novice at this game but from my bit of knowledge of WWI it seems to me that the Russians are tougher than they should be against the Germans. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Russian units have lower parameters than their German counterparts. Also their HQs tend to have a lower rating. The real problem for CP is the sheer size of Russian army, but in all those aspects the game simulates history very well. I wouldn't underestimate Russians during WWI. It took combined armies of Germany and A-H three long years to dislodge the forces of Tsar. The industrial output of the country was actually increasing, so in 1916 Russain army was much better equiped than in 1914. Mother Russia imploded suddendly due to the internal unrest, however the war was a main factor that ignited the spark of revolutuion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dquinn63 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks. But it seems very hard to win a sweeping battle like Tannenburg in the game. Maybe it's because I'm new to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 You just have to concentrate enough troops early enough and you'll get 'em. Works every time for me, but then again, I'm probably the the most vocal "East First" advocate on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 It is hard to repeat the history in the game - Tannenberg, Romania, Italy, defence in the West in 1917... It's simply a clear statement of how good the Germans actually were... If it comes to the Battle of Tannenberg - they managed to score a stunning victory there ( that didn't prove to be a decisive one at the end and it's significance was greatly overblowned by the propaganda ), mostly due to disastrous mistakes of their enemies. Later however, Germans failed to score a smilar success against Rennenkampf in the Battle of Masurian Lakes. They also didn't manage to dislodge Russians in the Battle of Warsaw and Lodz. The CP armies prevailed at the end, but their success didn't come easy contrary to the common preception and the price paid in blood was as high as in the West ( in 1915 the casualties in the East were actually higher ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dquinn63 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Thank you Ivanov. Very instructive. Glabro, what happens in the West when you concentrate on the East? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I hold the line at the original starting locations after grabbing Lux. I might try a variation and see whether grabbing Belgium and the nearby mines is worth the wide line that results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dquinn63 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share Posted January 6, 2012 Once you deal with the Russians and shift your units back to the Western Front what happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettowvorbeck Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Interesting, Glabro. You've won all your pbem games using this strategy? I hold the line at the original starting locations after grabbing Lux. I might try a variation and see whether grabbing Belgium and the nearby mines is worth the wide line that results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Well, so the games have ended before the fighting on the West Front starts in earnest, but the latest two games are exceptions. Of course, I blew it big time against Don when I brought in Spain without realizing how utterly weak it is (without HQs) and he conquered it for himself with relative ease, so that game was unfortunately skewed by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Glabro and I are currently playing this out to see how it goes. I'm Entente and have just invaded Belgium in April 1915. It's interesting and different from the norm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Glabro and I are currently playing this out to see how it goes. I'm Entente and have just invaded Belgium in April 1915. It's interesting and different from the norm! In this case I'd also invade Spain if you are still playing, using the patch where there is no Spanish HQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 LOL, that might be a little unfair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettowvorbeck Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Bill, What does the US think of the Allies invading Spain in the game (does their Allied alignment % go down?)? I would imagine we would have taken a dim view of the so-called good guys doing such a dastardly deed. You could make a good argument that that kind of brutality is worse than unrestricted sub warfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Palchinsky Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 LV, also the game really shouldn't allow ahistorical events like an allied invasion of Spain. In reality, it would be very difficult for France to justify it, let alone, the British going along with a French invasion. Unless a random event or German diplomacy triggers Spanish feelings to become pro-CP, then there should be limits imposed on declaring war. Bill, can there be a mechanism that at the minimum prohibits a DOW on countries that are leaning towards your side? I don't know how to apply this to neutrals unless you could also prevent allied players from declaring war on them too (obviously CP wouldn't have such a restriction). PP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 LV, also the game really shouldn't allow ahistorical events like an allied invasion of Spain. In reality, it would be very difficult for France to justify it, let alone, the British going along with a French invasion. Unless a random event or German diplomacy triggers Spanish feelings to become pro-CP, then there should be limits imposed on declaring war. Bill, can there be a mechanism that at the minimum prohibits a DOW on countries that are leaning towards your side? I don't know how to apply this to neutrals unless you could also prevent allied players from declaring war on them too (obviously CP wouldn't have such a restriction). PP It certainly makes sense but following that kind of logic, the Entente should be also prohibited to invade Belgium, which is a quite obvious choice if Germans concentrate their main forces against Russia and adopt strategic defensive posture in the West. In my opinion, the invasion of Spain should upset greatly USA and other nueutrals and that would be sufficient to counterbalance that kind of action. Spain should be also a difficult country to occupy with a frequent civil unrest and guerrila activity, so attacking it wouldn't be such a obvious and easy choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 While it isn't possible to prevent an Entente declaration of war against Spain, it can if necessary be penalized. At the moment, such a move will lead to both the USA and Portugal swinging against the Entente, of between 8-15% and 15-35% respectively. It works the same way were the Central Powers to declare war on Spain, in the sense that both countries would swing against their side. Normally the issue of Spain probably won't come up, except in games where the Germans attack Russia first. In this event, is the Entente's best move really to move their forces down to the Pyrenees rather than being as aggressive as possible on the Western Front? I'm not sure that it is, and it will probably be an even less profitable move in the next patch when there will be more potential to expand the Spanish army. As to an Entente declaration of war against Belgium, there are historians like Niall Ferguson who argue that the Entente planned to do this if the Germans hadn't attacked Belgium first. I'm not totally convinced by his arguments, but he does present his argument for this in his book The Pity of War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Well, probably the Spaniards would be a bit more willing to fight for Spain if Entente invaded them. Invading Belgium doesn't make a lick of sense for the Entente, the British wouldn't go along with that. Instead the British would adopt a very aggressive "Easterner" policy like Churchill argued for, in all likelihood. However, another option would be persuading Belgium to grant military passage to the Entente. In the game there is no diplomacy option for that, something for the future? Also remember that in real world terms, it'd be a lot more possible to "stack up" for a major offensive against Germany's West Wall, but in the game there is no stacking, so it makes attacking with however large a force a real challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 While it isn't possible to prevent an Entente declaration of war against Spain, it can if necessary be penalized. At the moment, such a move will lead to both the USA and Portugal swinging against the Entente, of between 8-15% and 15-35% respectively. It works the same way were the Central Powers to declare war on Spain, in the sense that both countries would swing against their side. Normally the issue of Spain probably won't come up, except in games where the Germans attack Russia first. In this event, is the Entente's best move really to move their forces down to the Pyrenees rather than being as aggressive as possible on the Western Front? I'm not sure that it is, and it will probably be an even less profitable move in the next patch when there will be more potential to expand the Spanish army. As to an Entente declaration of war against Belgium, there are historians like Niall Ferguson who argue that the Entente planned to do this if the Germans hadn't attacked Belgium first. I'm not totally convinced by his arguments, but he does present his argument for this in his book The Pity of War. The main practical problem with Spain ( even if the declaration of war went through on the diplomatic front ), would be the occupation of the country. In order to keep it pacified, the Entente would need to keep there a force of at least few thousad troops and that would be totally impractical, when the lack of manpower was the main concern and weakness of each of the WWI belligerents ( especially France). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glabro Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 A few thousand would hardly matter. Did you mean a few hundred thousand? An army is something on the order of 300.000, a corps 30-50k generally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I meant few hundred thousand, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dquinn63 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 For the record (I started this thread), I am now in summer 1915 and am grinding down the Russians and with fairly small German forces have been able to take the offensive in Poland while putting up a good show on the Western Front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanov Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Obviously you are playing against the AI, don't you? Against a human opponent it wouldn't be so easy;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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